Most reputable tuners for LNF's. Chime in here.

[MikeM173]

Look not everyone should be a tuner. I understand that the forums have a lot of good information but not everyone has the ability to comprehend what is actually going on. Not saying people are dumb just that not everyone can do it. Heck not everyone can wrench on a car. Keeping stuff informative without posting tables or giving away answers helps keep people from screwing there own car up. I guaranty half the people who think they can tune aren't that good at it. This is not me bashing and saying I'm the best I'm clearly stating that not everyone should do it or even attempt it.

[Area47]

i have more or less stopped doing outside work for people. previous people, not a problem. tired of fixing cars before the tune can be done, or fixing someone else's t00n.

[Boost]

Sad, but very true thread. You have to know what to ask and how these days. The only reason I take the risk and do the work whether local or e-mail these days is because that's my business and no one else can do around here what they are asking me to. Graded on a curve, the standads in this town are so low that when most clients see an honest and passionate service provider like us they don't mess around most of the time - I do avoid the sketchy charachters though. And I am here to learn what I can because I am now using HPT and LNF stuff on a daily basis on my personal car and I don't know JACK about either!!!

[Victory Red SS]

There is no difference between the 'old way' and 'new way' except that numbers aren't just handed out for tuners to come grab and flash. I think from the last couple threads Mike and I have started that no information is being held back. Help is always available. We're just keeping those who are too lazy to learn for themselves from taking other people's hard work and profiting off of it.

I don't consider it lazy to look at someone else's tune and see what they did try things one at a time see what happens. That is another form of learning ya know, trial and error. Has worked for scientists for many a year. I would never have the daring to copy an entire tune to my car and "see what happens". Too risky although many people have I'm sure. However I have learned many a thing that way and am still learning. Next I need to get a wideband O2 sensor and start tuning with it. I've known for years that you need one to tune properly and it's time before I hurt my little (Sonic 1.4 RS Turbo) new car. I'll figure it out but the "old way" I would just ask like I did a few weeks ago and get pointers and how to do it and what to look for.

[MikeM173]

Here is the problem. If I post up my tables then people will take from it what they will but the truth is they will have no clue that mine is set that way because of what I use the car for and because of the way I have other tables set up. The downside now is if I post up my entire tune people will not understand that I used the other tables certain ways to manipulate the table I'm working with or that I changed the other tablesbbecause of the change to the tables I'm explaining. Unfortunately tuning is not for everyone. If you can't grasp ideas and understand what all is happening and come up with new from there then maybe you shouldn't tune. By you I do not directly mean anyone I am just simply using it here. Not everyone should be a mechanic on a car. Nothing wrong with that but not everyone grasps how it works. I couldn't tell you how this stuff comes so easy to come up with new stuff and learn on my own. I just do it. That is not to say it should be easy or that I haven't struggled. Merely stating that if you can't grasp what I'm teaching without simply reading and asking so.e questions then you shouldn't be attempting to touch these tables because then most likely you won't see the overall effect. I understand completely what your saying but if I hand out too much and someone doesn't grasp something else then it'll be my fault I there head that they screwed up there car. Sorry but it's not my problem you didn't understand everything or ask all the necessary questions to go along with it. Sorry for the rant and I in no way meant anything offensive so please don't take it that way.

[lt1z350]

I am all about learning that is if people that say they will help or look at a tune would actually do what they say they will..... I build transmissions for a living that is probably one of the hardest trades out there right now. Transmissions change every year so that much more to learn and still have to keep knowlege from the 50s and 60s to be able to cover it all. I do manuals and automatics this has been the last 10 years of my life and I took it up because I got bored with being a true master mechanic the do it all overt the trade and ase licensed as such. I worked at caddy for 5 years works at speed shops fabricating parts welding roll cages. I have built race engines for Nascar arca series cars learned how to CORRECTLY port cylinder heads by using a flow bench then dynoing the engine. I have learned so much because I have had great teachers when to classes and have paid attention to my elders when I was younger rather than blowing them off like many kids today do. SO my point is if there was actually a place or a person that was willing to teach us that can actually grasp this then I would be able to get it. I have tuned with hex back when you used black light to erase a chip and cars used chips. I have tuner cat with access to nearly every gm product they make and that tunercat offers. Heads cams blowers turbos engines tuned off regular map tables to 100kpa and making boosted stuff live and make great power. converting over e58 to code 59 from a cyclone to my 1992 formula firebird 383 t76 turbo. So some of us can get this just please those that actually have got there cars to do what they want explain it point to the correct tables up or down what ever is easiest to explain it. If I could just get my throttle to stay open all the time when on the floor an it actually make the commanded boost I am asking for I would be pretty happy and car should be pretty damn fast. The ATS has so much potential by the random spots of super hard pulling through a gear then to shift and die off and tug back to 54 % throttle.
I have read and done what the working with e78 ecu write up and still no luck using what info is there so I need more..... I need more reading as I am a sponge when it is there and explained out in full in how to achieve what your looking for. I am not a shop I dont want to make money on this. I spent years on third gen .org burning 100 dollar chips for guys to help out as that covered my time and money spent on chips and boards to convert it over but over all I was helping guys get their pig rich heads and cam cars run right. That is all most of us are asking for here. Maybe some wont grasp it so give them a basic tune to copy and get them going but guys like me that can grasp it please let me see what you have so I can understand it and move on. I have spent 100s of hours getting my 2007 tahoe to get 20mpg that is all the time town and hwy. Weeks on dod stuff and timing to make it hold and get 30 mpg at 50 to 60 mph. I will share that with anyone that asks. Works great in any late model chevy or gmc ls truck. SO I know about time spent but I will still give it up free just to help out.
Mike I would really like to see what you have going on as I have seen you say yours makes good power. Ats4me also said was having good luck so another that would be nice to see. It is that or blow up my wifes car trying to make it right I guess that is what the warranty is for. Daily driver or not I bought the car to have fun with it and for now it is a pig on and off and if I kill it with no help so be it.

[MikeM173]

First off I don't need a resume to understand what your asking. Not trying to be rude just clearly stating that that stuff doesn't matter for the subject at hand. I couldn't tell you how I understand what I'm doing in a tune. I have lots of things I'm good at and I don't know why I just am. As for tuning goes I've made post to help out. If their is specific questions just ask. I will not give up my tune and for no other reason then most would never understand what is going on. I could care less who takes it or tries to make money. I don't want people blindlessly taking stuff and not understanding what is going on. I'm glad you want to learn but your going to have to learn from reading and trial and error and asking questions. I will continue to do write-ups as I see fit and necessary to help out. I apologize this isn't the answer your looking for and I'm sorry you think I'm not helping. I've spent a lot of time coming up with my posts in order to help. I drew out cams vs injection start time and explained it all. That wasn't a fun task or even something I needed. I did it all to help. People have sent me tunes and I have helped them. I will not give answers away but I will gladly try to help as best I can. This response is not just to you but everyone who agrees with you. It's not meant to be rude and come across like a know it all. I'm sure I'm missing keys to the puzzle as well. This is strictly me saying that looking at someone else's tune is not the way anyone should learn outside of the basics. Beyond that you have to understand a lot more then just the correlation between that tune your looking at.

[Boost]

Guys I just shared my "tunes" asking for a review and input. Not only can the world see how sorry my work probably is so far, but I am also not ashamed to ask for advice. I really respect the great tuners and I know how it is when people are trying to steal or learn the easy way. The thing is some don't even want to learn.

lt1z350 has been straighforward and humble asking for help here, for someone with so much experience. Sometimes, we will share a little bit of our background to avoid sounding like idiot kids with dumb questions. The fact is, this level of tuning, the rapidly changing technology, and the SPECIFICITY of say "LNF / LHU / LTG tuning with HPT" makes the less than handful experts the only ones that can even attempt to help.

I think these issues will soft themselves naturally, and those who were "not meant to tune" will just give up and / or blow their engines. But those that bought the best equipment, and are resilient and persistent despite whatever their current knowledge should be given a chance.

I grew up hanging around the best tuner in the world I know, Crispeed. He was a close personal friend and the best damn racer I have ever seen. Though he self taught by first learning the basics, the reading all the Haltech manuals and experimenting on his own car - guess what?? He spent a GREAT deal of time on the internet learning from others as well. That's my point. I, we are humbly and sincerely asking for advice for the sake of making our cars faster than those who don't have HPT and don't tune and for the sake of maybe saving our engines. You don't have to help at all if you don't want to. We will still ask politely. Thanks!

[MikeM173]

Here is the problem I see. WE ARE HELPING, and you guys are acting like were not. I do not have my laptop in front of me since I am at work so I can not pull up your tune. Is it LNF help you need? I will gladly help if it is. I want everyone to understand we are helping. Me and Codenamebill have posted up recently on tables that no one has talked about either in a very long time, or at all. I don't know what more I can offer help wise without just giving everyone the answers and even if I did that most would still not understand what is going on and still just put numbers I say to put in. If after reading this you still disagree with me then I apologize but we might as well end it because I will not change my mind on this. I will state that I have no problem sharing my tune with someone that understands it, just ask Codenamebill. I will help anyone get to the point I am, and I hope they learn more then I do and teach me.

[Victory Red SS]

No offense taken Mike. Two questions for you of which I suspect you know the answer to one but perhaps not the other.
Can you swap out a wideband with a narrowband O2 sensor without "confusing" the ECU? If not, can you dial in AFR without wideband?

[Boost]

We know you are helping and we are very thankful. I understand the depth and complexity of the issues is not one with a simple answer and any advice must come only at your convenience. Trust me I deal with lesser issues of a dozen e-mails / calls about Duramax and Cruze BS when I am buried with work. Most of the requests are silly / repetitive.

I am grouping LNF / LHU / LTG tuning together as though I am aware of the exact significant differences, tuning and control startegy is undeniably similar. And what else is in common is they all have brutal potential and everyone is lost tuning them.

I have an LHU and lt1z350 has an LTG. We only have you LNF guys to look to. Thanks again and I for one am not frustrated about anything and have all the patience and respect required. I am simply a lone wolf pioneer tuning a Buick Verano to stupid levels of performance and near destruction. I am sure my mistakes and failures will help someone in the future.

[Boost]

No offense taken Mike. Two questions for you of which I suspect you know the answer to one but perhaps not the other.
Can you swap out a wideband with a narrowband O2 sensor without "confusing" the ECU? If not, can you dial in AFR without wideband?

Sorry the questions are not addressed to me nor am I anywhere near as qualified to answer but my experience:

A) I am simulating the narrowband signal with my full time installed wideband successfully.
B) Yes you can but it's not recommended. You can get close by using tricks and shortcuts and gain respectable power and reasonable safety. It is not recommended. Make little and single changes at a time and err on the side of safety (rich, low boost, retarded timing)

But if already on this forum - why not take the last final step and do it properly?? I know I need to and I am trying to.

[Victory Red SS]

Sorry the questions are not addressed to me nor am I anywhere near as qualified to answer but my experience:

A) I am simulating the narrowband signal with my full time installed wideband successfully.
B) Yes you can but it's not recommended. You can get close by using tricks and shortcuts and gain respectable power and reasonable safety. It is not recommended. Make little and single changes at a time and err on the side of safety (rich, low boost, retarded timing)

But if already on this forum - why not take the last final step and do it properly?? I know I need to and I am trying to.

You installed a wideband separate from your stock O2 sensors? Reason for the question is I have an Aeroforce gauge that will read wideband and wanted to know if a simple swap to a wideband O2 sensor would work. Would rather not start welding on a brand new car but may consider a new downpipe though.

[lt1z350]

Guys I just shared my "tunes" asking for a review and input. Not only can the world see how sorry my work probably is so far, but I am also not ashamed to ask for advice. I really respect the great tuners and I know how it is when people are trying to steal or learn the easy way. The thing is some don't even want to learn.

lt1z350 has been straighforward and humble asking for help here, for someone with so much experience. Sometimes, we will share a little bit of our background to avoid sounding like idiot kids with dumb questions. The fact is, this level of tuning, the rapidly changing technology, and the SPECIFICITY of say "LNF / LHU / LTG tuning with HPT" makes the less than handful experts the only ones that can even attempt to help.

I think these issues will soft themselves naturally, and those who were "not meant to tune" will just give up and / or blow their engines. But those that bought the best equipment, and are resilient and persistent despite whatever their current knowledge should be given a chance.

I grew up hanging around the best tuner in the world I know, Crispeed. He was a close personal friend and the best damn racer I have ever seen. Though he self taught by first learning the basics, the reading all the Haltech manuals and experimenting on his own car - guess what?? He spent a GREAT deal of time on the internet learning from others as well. That's my point. I, we are humbly and sincerely asking for advice for the sake of making our cars faster than those who don't have HPT and don't tune and for the sake of maybe saving our engines. You don't have to help at all if you don't want to. We will still ask politely. Thanks!

That is exactally my point. I don't want anyone thinking some dumb punk kid with daddies credit card. If this wasn't my wife's daily driver the head would have been off and ported already. Things I know would be done but the car is lacking in tune and that is what needs to be first. As much as I have done I can't grasp what I do not understand. I can tune an ls1 with a huge cam and head make it get great gasmileage and idle correctly with max power becuase I understand the tables. I understand how an engine works. I don't get the way this new stuff is coralating from one table to the next. Things like base dc, pressure ratios, pressure delta factor, driver demand how kW relates to a number that coralates back to other tables. I see it all works together but to understand how all the tables work and then what the actual number is equating to in the program.
For instance base dc table is on a pressure ratio and rpm. What is the value and how does it relate back to the other tables? I know it changes boost but how?
Knock air mass another mess. The value I assume is g/cyl which my car can read in upwards of 1.58 on a log so you have a table that is -20 to plus 4. How do these values affect the vehicle? Stuff like all this I have yet to find a place to read about it. You guys that get it I would guess someone either explained it or you read about it. I don't think any of us on here wrote this stuff for gm so the info is out there somewhere. There is a pride factor in figuring it out but you have to have guidance to get there. Once you have an understanding of it then the fact I can put two and two together I can figure out by looking at my logs what my specific car will need vrs say your tune if I was to see it to underatand what tables to change and what to leave alone. So far what I have found and read is either vague or I read one thing and someone turns around sand says somethjng totaly different so now who to believe?
I have said before this site is so we can get together and pull our resources to try to make all out cars better. We just got an ats in here on a hook that is modded. Blew the snap ring out of the drum too much line pressure. Things like that I know. I can give back plenty to those that help and just ask. I don't want a free ride like some may ask for on here. I always excell in everything I do so when I get this I will GET IT and trust me those that have helped will benift. I just was asking for guidance and didn't want anyone thinking by telling things I have done was to stir anything just show I have half a brain so can figure it out when pointed in the right direction.
By the way the ats was denied at the dealer and was quoted 5200 for a trans. So even though the engine may be able to take "guessing" on the tune I will tell you the transmission will not and it will break. That is a pretty big chunk for something you have to have and don't make you go faster. Just a word of advice since I have been to a seminar here lately specific to the gm 6l45 6l50 6l80 and 6l90 and know what they like and what can hurt them.
I apprecieate every time someone gives advice that can help me.

[Victory Red SS]

Sorry the questions are not addressed to me nor am I anywhere near as qualified to answer but my experience:
*clip*
I know I need to and I am trying to.

Did some more reading and answered my own question. I do need another sensor to read wideband which explains the analog connections on the back of the gauge. I need to weigh now whether it's worth the investment right now ($300 to $400).
Now if I could just figure out how to delete my old "How to tune a MAF" post...

[codename Bil Doe]

I think you guys are taking not sharing way too personally. It's strictly directed at tuning shops who take people's hard work and copy/paste to customers for profit without any idea of why the tune is set up the way it is. Also, they're profiting off of other people's hard work. My tune has taken months to get dialed in. These aren't LS engine ecu's. They're much more complicated.

No one here has said they won't help. They said they won't post tunes or give free handouts. I think people in the past and a few presently have worked really hard to explain the ecu. We've also helped through PM's without handing out tunes.

If you want to learn, we're more than down to help you learn.

[T-Man]

I have no problem sharing info and what I've learned but my cal is setup for what I'm after and my driving style. If you were to copy and paste my cal to yours, I guarantee it would react differently and do you no good.

Have questions? Ask or PM me. Want my file? Not happening.

[MikeM173]

No offense but no one minus CodenameBill is getting my file. For no other reason then we have worked together some to figure stuff out and have bounced ideas off of each other. Sorry but no one is getting it and that's final.

I will gladly help out and teach whatever it is you want. As for how I learned I couldn't tell you. I read up on here for the basics and I just kind of knew what everything is. Yes some is trial and error and some is research. How I put everything together without guideline I really don't know. I am in no way saying I'm the best but I will say most of it I just felt like I knew.

You want to learn read what I post and ask questions. If I didn't make a post on something you want explained ask and I'll take the time to do a writeup. If you still have more questions ask. If you want me to look at your tune ask me to. It's that simple.

Either you understand that or you don't. Sorry.

[MikeM173]

What I find more intriguing is we have posted new stuff that has never been discussed and this pointless thread has more comments and more views yet those other informative posts don't have questions being asked and I know the 3xx reviews not everyone actually understands it. I also find it intriguing that you guys asking for help most likely haven't asked any questions on the tables we've discussed. I could be wrong because I haven't looked at those post to its entirety recently.

If you need help ask a question.

[codename Bil Doe]

I was thinking the same thing. That's why I wasn't going to post those threads originally. I decided instead to 'help' and share the info we've discovered lol.