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Thread: Throttle tuning Ford

  1. #1

    Throttle tuning Ford

    Here's what I found and no one share this I don't know why "dangerous" info.
    I spent lot of time to find it out, but finally it's easy.
    Hope this will help others.

    Here is how to tune Driver Demand Engine:
    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...254#post297254

    To complete this, some more info.
    For new throttle effective area is needed. For gt500 TB you can find in any GT500 tune, I have also KB stage 2 130mm (attached).
    If You don't have it, You have to play, but with method below playing both tables, effective area should be found too.
    Ford Racing 62mm per Ford instruction don't need tune, so it works with 4.6 Effective area table (Not GT500), but as Effective area can be left alone, then predicted throttle could be adjusted.

    First I thought predicted throttle needs to be copied also, but I was wrong.
    This table has to be adjusted after cam installation, turbo, supercharger, wihout it, car will drive good, but could do that better.
    Unfortunately it's not possible to do that without SCT logging. Take a look, that X Axis in Predicted throttle is wrong named, this should be ETC Area Opening, not Baro..

    Max throttle angle in ETC effective area on X axis must be same value as in last column of predicted area and vice versa (as You can see this in stock tune). Max angle You can log, GT500 for eg has not 82 max angle.
    I attached also SCT histo for log.
    You need to log Effective area by ETC for X, ETC Manifold vacuum for Y and wheel torque error.
    Goal is to get wheel tq error close to zero and IPC sum to low values. After it's done, You can set wheel tq error max to normal values.

    Easy check if throttle is good calibrated is to slowly increase RPMS on idle, if You can stop every 100rpm, then it's probably good. If You can't hold or quick adjust RPM's You want, then it's wrong.

    Now it's time for speed density and transmission... Best to know is why, not what to set...
    Hope finally all information for FORD will be complete and users will share more, like GM comunity...

    etc predicted.pngkb 130mm etc.jpg
    Last edited by caniggia; 03-31-2014 at 05:32 PM.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  2. #2
    HPT Employee Eric@HPTuners's Avatar
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    I am aware of the mislabeled X axis, and its on my list of things to correct. Thanks for posting.
    Eric Brooks
    HP Tuners, LLC

  3. #3
    Maybe, due I have no SCT Advantage and hope how it should be named. I found in another topic how it should and I corrected.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  4. #4
    BBK 70mm for Mustang 4.0, Predicted throttle. Was not throwin errors till JLT was installed, after that I had to retune.

    bbk70mm 4.0.jpg
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  5. #5
    HPT Employee Eric@HPTuners's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    The X axis name has been corrected.
    Eric Brooks
    HP Tuners, LLC

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    Here's what I found and no one share this I don't know why "dangerous" info.
    I spent lot of time to find it out, but finally it's easy.
    Hope this will help others.

    Here is how to tune Driver Demand Engine:
    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...254#post297254

    To complete this, some more info.
    For new throttle effective area is needed. For gt500 TB you can find in any GT500 tune, I have also KB stage 2 130mm (attached).
    If You don't have it, You have to play, but with method below playing both tables, effective area should be found too.
    Ford Racing 62mm per Ford instruction don't need tune, so it works with 4.6 Effective area table (Not GT500), but as Effective area can be left alone, then predicted throttle could be adjusted.

    First I thought predicted throttle needs to be copied also, but I was wrong.
    This table has to be adjusted after cam installation, turbo, supercharger, wihout it, car will drive good, but could do that better.
    Unfortunately it's not possible to do that without SCT logging. Take a look, that X Axis in Predicted throttle is wrong named, this should be ETC Area Opening, not Baro..

    Max throttle angle in ETC effective area on X axis must be same value as in last column of predicted area and vice versa (as You can see this in stock tune). Max angle You can log, GT500 for eg has not 82 max angle.
    I attached also SCT histo for log.
    You need to log Effective area by ETC for X, ETC Manifold vacuum for Y and wheel torque error.
    Goal is to get wheel tq error close to zero and IPC sum to low values. After it's done, You can set wheel tq error max to normal values.

    Easy check if throttle is good calibrated is to slowly increase RPMS on idle, if You can stop every 100rpm, then it's probably good. If You can't hold or quick adjust RPM's You want, then it's wrong.

    Now it's time for speed density and transmission... Best to know is why, not what to set...
    Hope finally all information for FORD will be complete and users will share more, like GM comunity...

    etc predicted.pngkb 130mm etc.jpg
    So is this possible to log properly with HPTuners? I am going to try and get a family member's 3.6 Kenne Bell 5.0 F150 to run properly, his throttle is all over. Trying to stop at every 100rpm is impossible, sometimes it will drop rpms as you apply more pressure, causes drivability problems. I pulled a tune out of it, I'm not going to mention who tuned it but it is a very well known tuner, I want to try and fix this properly.
    Jorge Hiebert 5.0 Kenne Bell.hpt

  7. #7
    It's not possible to tune etc with logging by hpt for now.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  8. #8
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge....I too wish the ford tuners would share like the GM guys do.

  9. #9
    It's problem for hpt also. The less people can, the less they earn.
    Others has no interest to share knowledge, because most of them are SCT users and are selling tunes they learned from SCT...
    HPT is great for them, because they can do it cheaper. Why then share knowledge?
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  10. #10
    In 2015 things are getting crazy, additinally you need to configure TPS, so even putting gt500 throttle body, for eg with roush charger, makes car not drivable.
    Effective area and predicted throttle now are bigger, but that's not the problem, you can copy tables and fill additional row with last avaliable row from pre 2015 throttle data.

    Configure TPS is the problem, since yoiu can't read ford racing tunes, no data is public available.
    I connected first GT500 tb into pre 2015 model and looked at voltage pids, min angle and max angle and corelation between all of this parameters.
    Goal is to get same data in 2015.

    First hysteresis blending should be set to not get electrical errors in max throttle and min throttle, and then adjust TPS A and B sensor slopes do match voltage reads as pre 2015.
    You need to get min throttle 8 for gt500 TB and max 82. Sensor slope A is forx max openining, B for min opening.
    adjust max throttle angle to what you need, stock 5.0 has bigger value than gt500, so this needs to be lowered.

    This are voltages you need to get for gt500 TB:
    TP1 TP2 angle
    idle 4,11 1.16 8st
    WOT 1.22 4,41 82st

    After you get voltages correct and min and max tb angle, you can try to get back hysteresis to stock values.
    For another TB things may get more complicated, as i see today there is much more tables comming, like gear ratio, gear lash etc, etc..

    Spent 2 week 4-5 hours daily to make this running...


    EDIT, some new tables were added, so usually you have to copy all from gt350 1:1
    Last edited by caniggia; 12-28-2017 at 04:11 PM.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  11. #11
    Good info

  12. #12
    HPT Employee Eric@HPTuners's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Crawfordville, FL
    Posts
    2,409
    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    In 2015 things are getting crazy, additinally you need to configure TPS, so even putting gt500 throttle body, for eg with roush charger, makes car not drivable.
    Effective area and predicted throttle now are bigger, but that's not the problem, you can copy tables and fill additional row with last avaliable row from pre 2015 throttle data.

    Configure TPS is the problem, since yoiu can't read ford racing tunes, no data is public available.
    I connected first GT500 tb into pre 2015 model and looked at voltage pids, min angle and max angle and corelation between all of this parameters.
    Goal is to get same data in 2015.

    First hysteresis blending should be set to not get electrical errors in max throttle and min throttle, and then adjust TPS A and B sensor slopes do match voltage reads as pre 2015.
    You need to get min throttle 8 for gt500 TB and max 82. Sensor slope A is forx max openining, B for min opening.
    adjust max throttle angle to what you need, stock 5.0 has bigger value than gt500, so this needs to be lowered.

    This are voltages you need to get for gt500 TB:
    TP1 TP2 angle
    idle 4,11 1.16 8st
    WOT 1.22 4,41 82st

    After you get voltages correct and min and max tb angle, you can try to get back hysteresis to stock values.
    For another TB things may get more complicated, as i see today there is much more tables comming, like gear ratio, gear lash etc, etc..

    Spent 2 week 4-5 hours daily to make this running...
    This should help with the GT500 TB issue concerning the Roush blowers and others that require it on a 2015+ Mustang GT.

    Attached is a Roush F-150 file. It uses the same throttlebody.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Eric Brooks
    HP Tuners, LLC

  13. #13
    Awesome. Can you add stock file from same calibration?
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  14. #14
    Thanks for posting the Roush file. It helped a lot with tuning my 15GT with the VMP tvs. I just had a 15 on the dyno with a Roush blower and tune. Roush is getting their IAT2 temps by connecting the manifold temp sensor to the driver's side IMRC sensor which of course is deleted. Any idea how they enable that in the tune? The IMRC and sensor type are off in the truck tune. I'm sure it has the IAT2 enabled. There's a manifold charge temp switch also which I don't see in HP tuners.

  15. #15
    Connect it to maf temp sensor so your iat is iat2, it's how i did it now, also interested, but its about throttle.
    Last edited by caniggia; 03-17-2016 at 06:13 AM.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  16. #16
    Yes that's the way I've been doing it too but Roush is making it work with the IMRC harness. On that car I could log IAT1 (maf iat sensor) and IAT2 (manifold) with LivelinkII. Livelink will pull up verified PIDS so it's enabled in the tune. On the 11-14 you had to add pins to the PCM connector and enable manifold air charge temp in the tune. I'm not sure how they're doing it in the 15.

  17. #17
    I reported it to support. Let's see what they will tell.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    I reported it to support. Let's see what they will tell.
    ive been wanting the same for a while now.

  19. #19
    Got info that we should be able to log manifold aircharge temp without change in tune, now wait for info if we will be able to correct timing because of that. But for now I can't check this.
    Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
    www.hd-customs.pl
    http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    Got info that we should be able to log manifold aircharge temp without change in tune, now wait for info if we will be able to correct timing because of that. But for now I can't check this.
    im pretty sure thats not what iat2 is. at least not in the 11-14. iat2 would be about 30* over iat1 and that manifold temp was like 3 degrees behind iat1.

    EDIT: Also, i hate to sound ignorant but with Eric posting the F150 file, what data did you need for pre 2015 cars?
    Last edited by thegraystang; 03-18-2016 at 12:09 AM.