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Thread: To much fuel/timing or to little during crank?

  1. #1

    To much fuel/timing or to little during crank?

    Hello all,

    My problem is that during crank sometimes my car starts up like normal other times it takes a very long time to turn over. If I attempt to start and it doesn't crank after about 1 sec I let off, I try again and it starts immediately every time.

    My car is a 99 camaro with Siemen Deka 60's in it and if I remember correctly I never had this problem before. 2 BAR SD Custom OS, so no MAF. Open loop because of my passenger exhaust manifold leak. Current temps are around 30 and I believe even when it is warmer outside I still have the same issue. Primary VE and my fuel data are very good. Motor is primarily stock when you think about it, -5CC pistons, ARP studs and rod bolts, Chromoly pushrods, 918 springs, titanium retainers, stock crank, stock rods, stock heads, stock ls1 intake, stock manifolds, ls6 block, stock 99 ls1 cam.

    My question. Is this excessive crank time because of excess fuel or timing or to little? With little done to the motor I don't believe I should have to change fueling during crank or spark but something is not right. How would I know?

    Any advise is appreciated.



    P.S My other problems if someone wants to baffle me with their intelligence but not as important as my initial question.
    1)With my Ford 9" I have had nothing but vibration problems and whining. Currently the backlash is horrible so there is a big gap from accel to decel. Would this cause tuning problems going into and out of load? I have a major problem tuning around 20-30 kPa because it is sometimes leaning all the way out or going to 10:1 AFR, it is not a subtle change at 35 kPa either, 35 could be -1 and 30 could be +25 on the same rpm scale.

    2)Oil pressure gauge is spazzing out, almost unusable. I don't remember when it worked correctly but I have changed the sensor out recently with another Borg Warner sensor with 0 change. My new red top optima battery is located in the back. About 2 gauge welding wire positive to front at distribution block and 2 gauge from battery negative to back of passenger head. 2 gauge from front of passenger head to chassis ground. Also two 2 gauge wires from battery to two chassis grounds in the trunk. The reason I added all that info is because I don't think it is grounded well enough, occasionally after letting my car sit for 12-24 hours I will start my car and my gauges will make a sweep while resetting my trip. Is this possibly my problem or is it possible I have something failing inside the motor? Example would be during cold motor temps the oil pressure is fine, going to work at operating temp at around 1200-1500 rpms high load my pressure spazzes out, even worse if I drive hard and then go back into those ranges when motor is closer to 200 degrees. I know above 2000 rpms the pressure is very steady and acts normal.

    3)When I start my car all is fine, drive to work, drive 100 miles, doesn't matter. Turn the car off and start it again within an hour when the motor is is warm and I am only hitting 6-7 cylinders. This problem goes away after a few miles. My guess is possible IAT soak? If I go to the store and let it run while I am in there for to long it will misfire as I drive off. Watching my wideband I obviously leaned out quite a bit, going from what I left the car at 14.5 or so and reading 15.5 AFR. Once my IAT goes back close to ambient temp the car smooths out and not another problem.
    I did find someone with the same problem but with an LT1, his fix was new O2 Sensors...I am open loop so this is not my problem. Closed loop may possibly fix my long idle problem by keeping my car stoich but not after warm crank right?


    Once again advice is welcome for these problems but not as annoying as my first problem.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by chevyalltheway; 02-05-2014 at 09:41 AM.

  2. #2
    What's fuel pressure doing during initial prime, crank and how is it subsequently holding at the rail over time?

  3. #3
    Ill have to pay attention. I read your post yesterday and watched, then proceeded to forget. I know during driving it always stays at 62 and depletes to 54 or so during full throttle thanks to 99-02 return less system. I forgot to mention although insignificant in my opinion my fuel pump is a racetronix 255lph fuel pump with upgraded wiring.

    I know when mey on engine off I see pressure spike to 60-62 and deplete somewhat quickly.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner gn2beatu's Avatar
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    x2 - check your pressure, if its dropping off that fast, then the regulators not holding pressure. It sounds like its the second prime thats enabling the start. You may want to try this as well, In cars with a regulator thats bad, sometimes you can tell by turning key to ignition one and waiting a second (for full prime) then starting by turning key the rest of the way to IGN2. If you just go straight to cranking and have zero FP built up, your then also dealing with lower voltage to the pump during cranking/priming of fuel rail.
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  5. #5
    gn2beatu...If my regulator is bad what could I do the check it, if I have a good regulator and go straight to crank it will be fine but with a bad regulator it will struggle? Are we talking about the regulator by the fuel rail? I understand the less voltage, good insight. I do not know what you guys want me to say about how my fuel pressure drops during crank so I took a video of it, go figure that when I am trying to show you what I mean it started right up. Granted I turn the key on, waited, key off, key on, waited, then started. Let me know what you guys think.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Bx...e_gdata_player
    Last edited by chevyalltheway; 02-10-2014 at 03:07 AM.

  6. #6
    For anybody reading this thread I am confident my regulator is bad. Current fix is waiting to crank my motor and giving it a few seconds.