Cam timing adjustment for xr6 turbo

[orangeute338]

Hi guys,

Just wondered if anyone has played with the cam timing in hp? is it worth it on a bf with stock turbo and cams? or would be make it worse since bf has independent vct and the hp cant adjust it separate?

i have had a play.

stock at top load the map was -9 till 3500rpm then 4000-5000 +10 and then +20 at 6000rpm

i have tried the opposite so +10 to 3500rpm then -10 on

and tried 0

stock seems to be the best. opposite seems to kill the top end which is confusing because everything i can find on the net says

advance both cams should make low end power and retarding both makes top end power but it seems to be opposite when i tried it.

whats everyone's thoughts?

cheers
Josh

[zc347]

It is opposite in the software. -9 is actually advanced 9 degrees and vice versa.
Most of the table is huge positive numbers(retarded) through the mid range load. The VCT is there mainly as a fuel economy thing. Horsepower comes second. But yeah, playing with it can get results. Retarding it more in the upper rpm can stretch out peak power a bit more.

[orangeute338]

It is opposite in the software. -9 is actually advanced 9 degrees and vice versa.
Most of the table is huge positive numbers(retarded) through the mid range load. The VCT is there mainly as a fuel economy thing. Horsepower comes second. But yeah, playing with it can get results. Retarding it more in the upper rpm can stretch out peak power a bit more.

thanks for the reply that makes a lot more sense. yeah well i have noticed its a lot shitter play around with it how i had. will have another play hopefully can get it a bit better.

would be good to be able to adjust them seperate. hopefully one day

[Eric@HPTuners]

What is your OS ID? I will look into the definitions and see about getting the controls defined. Do all of the XR6 Turbos need these tables? (Sorry I am not more familiar with these)

[orangeute338]

Not sure what os id is?

The ba had both cams wired together so they both move together. The bf on had the cams wired seperate so can be adjusted seperate. I think more gains could be made if could adjust them separately like factory

[Eric@HPTuners]

OS ID is our name for the strategy ID. If you open the file, click on the "Calibration Details" button in the toolbar you will find it.

[hiddeous]

Eric,
Not all Aus Ford I6's have dual vct. Its Basically BA FPV BF Xr6T and FPV and all Fg's. How this translate into a list of strategies I don't know. I have an excel sheet with a table of strategy vs model that I have pulled together over the years, I'll email it too you.

[JETURBO]

Email it to me to gimpy

[Eric@HPTuners]

Eric,
Not all Aus Ford I6's have dual vct. Its Basically BA FPV BF Xr6T and FPV and all Fg's. How this translate into a list of strategies I don't know. I have an excel sheet with a table of strategy vs model that I have pulled together over the years, I'll email it too you.

That would be very helpful.

[orangeute338]

They all have dual vct. Just not seperate control of the cams

[hiddeous]

Dual VCT implies to me (at least) independent control of the cams?

[orangeute338]

It's dual variable cam timing. That's why it says dual vct on cam cover. Both cams are variable just not together like newer models. They could be called dual independent vct.

Does anyone know the angle in relation to the cam. If you have 10 in the map is that 10deg crank rotation which would be 5deg on the cam?

[Eric@HPTuners]

In all of the US calibrations, all VCT stuff is done in crank degrees. I would imagine the OZ stuff is the same :-)

[orangeute338]

i might be missing something then. the sprockets only have 30-32deg of full movement, so that should mean 30deg +- in the tables wouldn't it? the tables go higher then that tho

the id for mine is also HACCHB5

[zc347]

It all makes sense. I haven't seen a table above 50 degrees on the 6 cylinders. So 50 crank degrees is 25 camshaft degrees, all is good if max physically is about 30 camshaft degrees.

[Eric@HPTuners]

On all the new stuff I am making definitions for, I clarify in the description that it is actually crank degrees. Hopefully when I get this new stuff done, I can go back and update the older stuff we support with clearer descriptions.

[orangeute338]

It all makes sense. I haven't seen a table above 50 degrees on the 6 cylinders. So 50 crank degrees is 25 camshaft degrees, all is good if max physically is about 30 camshaft degrees.

That would mean you would only have 50 deg advance and only 10deg retard. that could be the case tho

[zc347]

There's definitely more retard than advance asked for in the tunes. The max retard table goes to 80 degrees, but I wouldn't try command it. I've brought home a VCT gear, so I'll have a play and double check what it physically goes to this weekend sometime.

[orangeute338]

Yeah that would be good. I pulled one apart and measured how far it moved pretty sure was about 30odd deg. The atomic adjustabke ones have 32deg also.


This is from the net about the barra when it was released


At cruise on highway, where throttle openings are reduced, the system is able to retard the timing by as much as 50 degrees.

This cuts fuel consumption as well as providing internal exhaust gas recirculation that helps lower tailpipe emissions.

At idle, the camshaft is advanced by 10 degrees for smoother running.

Camshaft variation of 60-degrees allows the four-valve engine to provide plenty of low down torque. Traditionally four-valve engines demonstrate a strong top end but suffer from a weak bottom end. Thanks to the dual VCT system, the Falcon I6 provides purposeful torque from very low revs.

The transition through the 60-degree advance/retard range is seamless, unlike some less advanced systems where there is a defined point at which one or other program takes effect.

The amount of adjustment is determined by comparing the position of the camshaft with a pre-mapped calibration.

Each camshaft on the I6 engine is fitted with a camshaft phaser that allows up to 60-degrees of variation, depending on engine load. The variation is activated via oil-pressure acting against the phaser

[orangeute338]

Maybe it has 10deg advance and 50deg retard? Makes sense on the bf turbo map it goes upto 40odd retard but only 9advance.