Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 31 of 31

Thread: E40: Start issues

  1. #21
    Wire your wideband direct to 12V for your test. That should allow that to work for you, not sure if the transport delay and temp will allow you to gather the data you want

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Yea, same thing I said. Going to take like three hours for him to pull the wiring and connecting to batt directly. He's pissed at the design of the sensor which he purchased at my say so. Its a disaster every way you look at it
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  3. #23
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    The design of the sensor? There's nothing wrong with the design of the sensor. User error is the problem here.

    It sounds like you don't want to deal with this guy anyway.

    By the way, the VE table is a major source of the problem.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  4. #24
    Advanced Tuner gn2beatu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Germantown WI
    Posts
    414
    Not sure what cam is in yours, but my boosted LS2 liked 12-14 deg at idle with LS9 cam.

    The decay table you said in above post you cant find is under idle, idle airlfow, startup, startup airflow
    It is labeled as idle startup airflow vs ERT vs ECT. Play with your BRAF to get it to start and then the decay table after. Sometimes cranking VE has to be messed with if its a big cam as well.

    Also here is a VE table from my LS2 TBSS that ran 12.9 NA before the turbo, you can see how much lower your VE numbers are. This was with stock injectors tho. But it might give you an idea of which way to go.

    1,449.0 1,460.0 1,472.4 1,481.3 1,491.5 1,506.8 1,533.1 1,548.8 1,566.8 1,579.8 1,595.6 1,616.8 1,637.8 1,653.8 1,673.3 1,686.5 1,699.7
    1,538.0 1,550.3 1,563.4 1,575.1 1,591.1 1,609.2 1,627.3 1,645.4 1,663.6 1,681.7 1,699.8 1,717.9 1,732.6 1,747.1 1,763.4 1,778.8 1,788.8
    1,624.0 1,640.0 1,662.1 1,681.7 1,701.4 1,716.3 1,731.3 1,746.3 1,761.3 1,776.2 1,791.1 1,806.1 1,817.6 1,828.5 1,845.8 1,859.6 1,869.9
    1,690.8 1,722.4 1,750.1 1,768.6 1,793.5 1,807.0 1,820.6 1,834.1 1,847.6 1,861.1 1,874.6 1,888.2 1,898.1 1,907.4 1,922.1 1,940.8 1,950.1
    1,752.7 1,793.3 1,828.2 1,848.1 1,869.6 1,889.4 1,902.2 1,914.9 1,927.8 1,940.5 1,953.3 1,966.0 1,978.8 1,987.8 1,996.7 2,010.6 2,026.2
    1,813.1 1,859.9 1,896.7 1,918.6 1,939.4 1,956.8 1,970.7 1,984.5 1,998.4 2,012.2 2,026.0 2,039.9 2,053.7 2,064.5 2,078.9 2,091.2 2,105.2
    1,870.8 1,920.4 1,957.8 1,987.1 2,008.9 2,029.3 2,043.6 2,057.2 2,070.8 2,084.4 2,098.1 2,111.7 2,125.3 2,138.9 2,156.2 2,175.9 2,190.8
    1,921.8 1,983.8 2,022.9 2,054.0 2,082.4 2,110.9 2,132.9 2,145.7 2,163.0 2,173.8 2,198.5 2,213.7 2,239.7 2,264.1 2,283.8 2,299.8 2,317.3
    1,975.9 2,041.5 2,088.3 2,120.3 2,155.6 2,186.5 2,205.8 2,236.8 2,257.0 2,280.0 2,293.8 2,325.0 2,356.3 2,387.5 2,404.6 2,426.4 2,444.7
    2,021.3 2,093.1 2,152.8 2,190.3 2,235.7 2,266.3 2,298.8 2,330.3 2,353.0 2,372.3 2,401.7 2,425.9 2,454.8 2,483.6 2,512.4 2,541.2 2,567.4
    2,048.9 2,130.4 2,203.1 2,244.1 2,293.6 2,333.2 2,368.8 2,404.3 2,436.0 2,463.5 2,488.3 2,515.5 2,556.6 2,584.8 2,612.9 2,634.5 2,659.9
    2,066.9 2,140.8 2,203.9 2,246.9 2,310.1 2,347.9 2,389.9 2,434.8 2,476.7 2,501.5 2,530.3 2,550.2 2,590.7 2,635.3 2,659.6 2,688.1 2,705.4
    2,060.3 2,121.0 2,173.3 2,208.7 2,261.8 2,307.3 2,356.4 2,403.6 2,446.1 2,473.9 2,502.2 2,530.1 2,573.6 2,619.7 2,654.8 2,681.9 2,705.4
    2,006.6 2,052.4 2,098.3 2,136.6 2,182.1 2,225.2 2,277.2 2,332.9 2,375.0 2,403.2 2,435.6 2,470.4 2,521.5 2,570.6 2,623.1 2,643.7 2,657.9
    1,917.3 1,968.4 2,009.9 2,046.8 2,087.1 2,127.6 2,177.2 2,233.9 2,284.9 2,317.3 2,350.1 2,397.0 2,441.4 2,494.6 2,542.8 2,568.4 2,588.9
    1,802.9 1,860.0 1,905.0 1,940.3 1,981.7 2,024.2 2,074.8 2,133.4 2,175.9 2,212.3 2,251.1 2,300.4 2,354.4 2,406.1 2,459.6 2,487.8 2,501.6
    1,675.6 1,728.0 1,774.0 1,816.4 1,864.3 1,909.8 1,955.9 2,016.0 2,065.0 2,105.3 2,143.1 2,196.9 2,259.4 2,315.1 2,371.3 2,398.0 2,415.5

    Paste those numbers in your VE and then look at it in 3D mode and see how theres no mountains and valleys. This VE table was an open loop mafless tune at the time that ran 12.9 in a 5200lb truck. If you wanna download the whole tune its here....

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...p-6-0-LS1-HELP
    2000 Regal GS ~ 3.25 Pulley ~ Headers ~ 3"ex ~ 1.85 Rockers
    Sold 06 TBSS ~ Front Mount T88 ~ 0-30 in 1.17 ~ 0-60 in 3.0
    Wanted ~ Engine-less 95/Older 4x4 ~ Jeep/S-10/Ranger for TT Project

  5. #25
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Hey, thanks guys... I'm going to try and contact him again tonight and give it another go if hes willing. The voltage seems to be dropping too low when hes starting and its causing the wideband to go into heat up loop. Im frustrated beyond all belief yes, and blowing off some steam. I wish I could be there myself and help him, hell I'm close to selling one of my kids here to buy a friggin' plane ticket! I've never tried to help anyone that has kicked my ass so hard before. I've been around here a long time and I don't give up easy. I just know his frustration is as bad as mine right now and all I'm trying to do is help a guy out. There is no benefit in this for me other than helping a buddy. I do really thank you guys for your input, I don't want this thing to beat me!!!!!
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Well, glad I went back into it... thanks for the tips guys...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  7. #27
    Tuner Force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    195
    Russ_D_BoostedLS2_Close2.hptscan close 2.hpl Hi there and thank you for your help so far. I have attached our latest tune file and scan of this tune at start only. we have previously tuned primary VE and boost to within a close percentage of error. We are now back as the cold start has gone a bit wonky again. It starts and idles pretty good without hunting too much at all. Then when I select reverse gear and put the engine under slight load, it starts to hunt pretty bad. The short scan shows the idle and then the idle when in gear under load. I started it twice in that scan as well.
    Hot start is good.
    I am not familiar with a lot of the tables in the idle of the E40, Paul who has been making up the tunes for me will be a lot more knowledgable in that area. I thought it would save us a lot of time if can get some direction on how to improve this area of the tune.


    Thanks Russell

  8. #28
    Tuner Force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    195
    The engine is a 404 cube ly6 with a harrop 2300 pd blower on 14.7 stoich fuel. The camshaft specs are 226/238 @.050" and 114 Lsa .600 lift.

  9. #29
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Alright, here's the beans of this thing. Im asking for a way to command a start of .8 lambda and get it to command a lambda of 1 once there is some heat in it. Ive set the EQ to 10. Set all multipliers to a value of one except the Intake Valve Temp Table which is set to .1130, 10 X .1130=1.13 or 13:1 AFR. This had the truck start perfectly. No studder, no buck, nada.... I was commanding 1 Lambda all the time and it was a member here that PM'd me and was kind enough to point that out. Commanding a Lambda of 1 for start was leaving too much fuel on cold valves and was causing the studder, makes all the sense in the world.. would anyone here know what the valve temp would be when engine is at operating temp? If I know the valve temp with engine warm I can set that section of the Valve temp table to .1 giving us 1 Lambda. I cannot find a PID that will scan that value for us though
    Last edited by MMGT1; 01-25-2014 at 08:06 AM.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Found an article and I think I have my answer:

    Steel is still the predominant material for mass-produced engine valves, and stainless steel is not uncommon because it provides better wear resistance and heat transfer than steel at nearly the same mass. In racing applications, titanium valves often are used because their mass is 60 percent of that of steel valves, but primarily for intake valves. “Typically, valves see temperatures of 400°C/752°F on the intake valve face and 900°C/1652°F on the exhaust valve face,” says Radford.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,957
    Well, this is working... I know I keep posting here but if it leads someone not to go through what we have been though then its worth it. We set the temp to command 1 lambda at 300* and its still a little too long before it kicks down to stoich. Plan is to lower that temp tonight, when we can get into it, and find the happy place where Valve temp is high enough to maintain a stoich valve and keep a steady idle, so far this is working and showing promise that's for sure
    2000 Trans Am WS6