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Thread: Please help total noob. Thank you

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    Question Total noob trying to tune a 3800 series II 1999 Riviera

    Hey, guys. I am totally new to tuning and I have only been reading all about it for the last month or so.

    I just got HPT pro and I have a modded 99 Riviera.

    I look around the web I can find bits and pieces about tuning. But I cannot find a totally inclusive noobs guide to tuning.

    I am looking for a source of info that says, for a series II 3800 this is what EVERYONE will want to change first.

    Then after you get the basics done, you start tuning for your mods.

    This has to exist on the web somewhere, right? I cant find it if it does.

    Just looking for someone to point me in the right direction. I am ready to read and learn, just need to know where all the good books are.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by charlieRobinson; 12-08-2013 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    First off you need a config file you can work with ie: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ll=1#post74243

    Save that config file and as stated in the post, open it with your scanner only. Then, get a log while using the config, and when you finish your drive, of at least 20 mins by the way, save your scan. Click on scan at the top left of your screen and "save as" whatever you wish to call it. ie: firstscan07_12_13

    Once you have that file, come back here and attach the scan and your current tune to your post. When you have your first scan and tune up, we can go over the basics and get you started. Also, when you make that post, post what the mods of the Riv are. There isn't really a write up that I ever found for v6 tuning so it took a hell of a long time for me to put together how to tune one. I'm willing to give it a go with you and along the way I'm sure some of the v6 guys will chime in and have their say...lol I dont want to say "do this, change that" without reasoning behind it, so I will do my best to give you as much info as I can and we'll build a thread that can help any V6 guys that may need it along the way as well. It's about time somebody here did....lol

    Are you familiar with widebands and what they do?

    My first suggestion for you is to get yourself one. I use the NTK AFX and have had great results using it. If you don't have one yet, hit up Ballanger Motorsports and get yourself one. Still the best price I've found on the internet for one, and they pair it with the upgraded sensor right out of the box.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    Thank you very much, MMGT1. I ordered my HPT Pro last week so I am just waiting for it to get here and I will scan and get it uploaded here ASAP.


    I am somewhat familiar with what a wideband does. Just gives a more accurate view of what the AFR is in real time for a more detailed tune, right? Something you cant do with the stock 'narrow band' ?

    It's a replacement for the stock O2 sensor, right?
    I will get a wideband sensor soon, but I want to get busy tuning what I can without one as soon as I get the tuner.

    Like I said, I'm a complete noob to tuning so I truly appreciate your time and patience in guiding me. Thank you.

    I put my mods in my sig. Let me know if you have any questions! Thank you again!
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  4. #4
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    The stock narrow band, they just are not built to properly give an accurate AFR when in PE"power enrichment" mode. You can tune to where your car goes into PE with the narrow band, but anything above that is not recommended at all. Scrape together your pennies, sell your sister if you have to, and get one. Looks like your mods are the perfect car for this endeavor as well. Once you have your tuner, shoot me a PM in case I miss you posting here.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    Ok. I got the BIN file read and saved from the car. I attached it on this post.

    I am reading as much as I can and I am comparing this file with a BIN from a stock 1999 GTP. Same engine, so trying to find out why the differences.

    Once I get a good scan I will post it here!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    A quick veiw and compare with my 00 GTP showed very little changes in the stock files, nothing I'd even bat an eye at.

    You gotta figure emissions and just because it was a buick can be a reason for some very minor changes.

    I just have a feeling that on your scan (when you post) you'll see extra amounts of knock if you indeed have a 3.4 pulley with no exhaust mods on it.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  7. #7
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    01.hpl02.hpl03.hpl

    Thanks for the reply, 5FDP!

    I saved 3 scans from this evening. Please note, I changed the pulley to a 3.6" to be safe before making these scans.

    Please see my attached scans. Advice on where to go from here is very much appreciated! m_ _m
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    i just looked at these scans myself and I am not too happy with them. It seems I did not capture much high RPM action.

    I will do a better job taking my next scans and try to better isolate wot/high rpm events.
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  9. #9
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    Please use/check these scans. #2 is the best, I think.

    1.hpl

    2.hpl

    3.hpl
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    What should my first objective be? I am reading a lot about first start by dialing your fuel trims in to +or- 3%. I read that some thing you should tune VE in SD mode to get an optimal tune and others say its unnecessary.

    Can anyone give me a shove in the right direction?
    Thank you
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  11. #11
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    VE tuning on a 3800 is pointless, don't even worry about that part.

    You can get a good MAF tune down if you need it, roughly anywhere from -/+ 5% of zero at WOT is good. I never tune the whole maf table though, just about half of it to get a good point for entering PE.

    Otherwise there isnt much to these engines, if you see knock perhaps lower timing a tad or improve exhaust flow if needed. Maybe add a small amount of fuel to help it, stuff like that. I only run 13ish degree's of timing currently, it's all the car wants really, and it was winter and I didnt care to "tune" it.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    I'm walking blind right now with the little knowledge I have, but, do i need to first start out by dialing in my fuel trims for my mods? Is that how i get started?
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85

  13. #13
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I looked at one of those scans and the few times you went more than 80% throttle the fuel trims were at 3.9%, which is just fine if you ask me.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  14. #14
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    FuelTrims.cfg

    Since your using narrowband for now download that .cfg file. It will give you the "average fuel trims" in histo #8 and will filter 0% TPS. You can change that filter to omit whatever fuel trim cell you wish. IE: to filter your DFCO in a scan check what trim cell you are in when DFCO kicks in and use the filter string in Histo #8 to filter it. You are looking pretty lean through the entire MAF table there. When using that cfg take the info populated up to 7500hz and paste special multiply by %-half. Continue to do this until you are just a % or 2 lean. Don't let it go rich, you do not want to have the car pulling fuel before PE as it will carry that error through PE mode and have you running lean when you get on it.
    Once you have trims properly set, open the MAF table in your tune and have a look at what your MAF looks like at the 7500hz mark and leading up to it. You can manually adjust the MAF curve to "carry the trend" through to the top of the MAF table. This will actually get you pretty close but you will need that wideband to do it properly.
    There was also a bit of Knock Reduction in your scan there. If you look at histo #2 you will see what I mean. Open histo # 2, Load All Data, and look at the average KR the car picked up. You will want to remove the KR you see from your timing table and then smooth the cells around that change to give you a nice smooth timing table overall. On the topic of timing, you can also bring the timing up in your cruise areas to the 40-42* mark, your a little low there from what I've done with these.
    Give that a go to get you started and then post a log of your results when you get it in line.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  15. #15
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    Something to address right now as well.... your Fans. Under Fan System, click on Fans. They should be as follows for the 180* T-Stat you have installed.

    Fan 1 On Temp 182*
    Fan 1 Off Temp 174*
    Fan 1 Enable Speed 30MPH
    Fan 1 Disable Speed 35MPH

    Fan 2 On Temp 185*
    Fan 2 Off Temp 183*
    Fan 2 Enable Speed 55MPH
    Fan 2 Disable Speed 55MPH

    I also set fans to stay on after shut down as a nice touch, under Ignition off set as follows:
    Disable Temp 175*
    Run Time 240 sec

    You can also relieve some stress off your AC unit with the program which is another nice thing to do IMO

    I set the AC to disable at 75% TPS and Re-enable at 70%. Then in the A/C Disable RPM vs. Gear set the P/N to disable at 3300RPM and re-enable at 3300RPM. In Gear, disable at 4400RPM and Re-enable at 4200RPM. This will keep your AC unit running well for years to come. Its pretty stressful on the unit to have it running at a high RPM and you will not loose HP when you give 'er the beans and the AC is in the ON position... wink, wink
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training charlieRobinson's Avatar
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    Thank you, MMGT1!

    I made those changes and i am working on the hot spark table and injector flow rate table
    1999 Riviera L67 SII 3800
    XP HOT cam, 140# springs, Gen V swapped, 60# inj, E85