2 or 3 sec rich decel with sd 60's

[joshmith]

I have the banish dvd and created the injector data step for step watching and pausing. I've searched high and low and cannot figure this out. Its a 2 bar sd tune, everytime I lift the throttle it goes as rich as mid 12's just for a moment then stft's pull it back. I think its a transient issue but my bin has VERY limited transient tables compared to every one that I've looked at or screenshots I've seen. I've moved the transient settings both directions and does'nt change a thing. I've been searching and trying things out for 3 or 4 wks now and can't get it to quit. My gas mileage went down when I installed the 60's last year in preparation for the current turbo set up. I figured it just came with the territory, now that I have my wideband hooked up to a gauge I see it do this everytime. The log is only 18 seconds long its pretty obvious at about 9 seconds in. Driveability, cold starts, afr, fuel trims are all in line except for this. 2006 silverado, lq4, trick flow 235's, lsxrt intake, 102 tb, 212 comp cam, bw s475 t4 with 1.1 ar and 87 ex. wheel. Please help!!

[joshmith]

Bump

[stan]

Might try lowering the 40 kpa x 1200 rpm cell a little bit in your VE table. Log it again in OL and see what happens. Make sure your are in OL. The STFT Open Loop box is enabled right now too.

I had issues with my sd60s having too large a min pulsewidth with Gregs Data. Would even idle too rich but I have a stock cam that doesn't take much fuel. That doesn't appear to be your problem.

[LSXtreme]

Bringing this back alive. I have the same problem with the same injectors. Any help on this would be great!
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...rt-Pulse-Adder

[RonSSnova]

I have the same problem with ID 1000's. Lowering the VE cells where I see decel has no effect.
I haven't messed with the min fuel milligrams yet, it is currently set to .008.
When I get the steady state portions happier I'll play with that.

I did check to make sure that my boost/vac referenced FPR drops the pressure at high manifold vac and it does.

I'm on E85. Car runs fine. But this behavior bugs me! :-)

Ron

[LSXtreme]

I have the same problem with ID 1000's. Lowering the VE cells where I see decel has no effect.
I haven't messed with the min fuel milligrams yet, it is currently set to .008.
When I get the steady state portions happier I'll play with that.

I did check to make sure that my boost/vac referenced FPR drops the pressure at high manifold vac and it does.

I'm on E85. Car runs fine. But this behavior bugs me! :-)

Ron

After doing a little searching I might have a little light on the issue. I am not saying this is 100% accurate its just from what I have been reading. I found that if you had a VE/MAF tune before the injector install then the rich idle/decel is in the injector data. With that said IFR has a little to do with it only if your data is way off but it looks like the short pulse adder/offset seems to be the biggest culprit. I am going to try a couple things in those areas and go out for a drive.

[RonSSnova]

I pretty much started from scratch with a 99 Camaro PCM, running a 5.3L with a 3 bar os. I used all of the injector data provided by ID.

I'm sure my neighbors are getting tired of me " going out for drives" ha!

[LSXtreme]

haha ya, I just moved so I need to break in my new neighbors!..

So I just got back from a drive. All i did was change the offset and short pulse adder a little and I still get the rich decel but the fuel trims at idle are waaaay up. Like +20 now. At least I see a big change the other way which is good i guess.

[joshmith]

I ended up reducing the min fuel milligrams to .021, reduced the offset vs volts table, short pulse adder and maybe the min inj pulse, cant remember 100% but it did clean all of my issues up. I have attatched the final tune. Now i have since went to the ID1000's and using ID's data I have the same problem again, this time using a vac ref reg and running them at 43.5psi, except now lowering those tables doesn't help. I bought them through dsteck and pm'd him about my issue and he thinks my ve table is off, I've OL tuned the shit out of the ve table and it didn't help. My current theory is this, my small cam and 4.10 gears get me into the mid teens kpa during decel and the 2 bar ve table only goes down to 30kpa, I think it just uses the last row just like it does at the top when you exceed the table or how the spark table "just uses the last row"...so, my 30kpa airflow numbers are to much for my mid teens kpa situation. I guess there's nothing I can do to fix it. Btw, I am currently using .008 min fuel milligrams with the 1000's.

[LSXtreme]

I ended up reducing the min fuel milligrams to .021, reduced the offset vs volts table, short pulse adder and maybe the min inj pulse, cant remember 100% but it did clean all of my issues up. I have attatched the final tune. Now i have since went to the ID1000's and using ID's data I have the same problem again, this time using a vac ref reg and running them at 43.5psi, except now lowering those tables doesn't help. I bought them through dsteck and pm'd him about my issue and he thinks my ve table is off, I've OL tuned the shit out of the ve table and it didn't help. My current theory is this, my small cam and 4.10 gears get me into the mid teens kpa during decel and the 2 bar ve table only goes down to 30kpa, I think it just uses the last row just like it does at the top when you exceed the table or how the spark table "just uses the last row"...so, my 30kpa airflow numbers are to much for my mid teens kpa situation. I guess there's nothing I can do to fix it. Btw, I am currently using .008 min fuel milligrams with the 1000's.

Great thanks! After looking at your tune I think I may have found part of my issue. I have already pretty close to the offset you have. The biggest difference was the short pulse adder which after some trial and error I found this can really effect the injector at idle. I found my old tune with the 60# and I must not have copied the short pulse adder in. I will try the new changes I have made and post an update later.

I was about ready to toss the towel in over this because this rich decel and idle was killing me.

[joshmith]

Great, I hope it works out for you. I'm pretty sure I only took about 2% out of that offset table so that would make sense that we're close there. How big is your cam? What do you have for your min fuel milligrams?

[LSXtreme]

Cam is only a TR224 which is 224/224 .565ish. Oddly the lean tips got me on this whole problem. I lowered the min fuel milligrams to .031 but I also change a couple other things as well and it fixed the lean tips but now I have huge long rich tips on decel and idle. I have a problem of changing a couple things and then cant figure out what change effected what so I am going to start over on the injector data and go from there as I sorta have it narrowed down the short pulse adder/ offset/ and min pulse width.

[RonSSnova]

Josh, you are in the same boat as me. I'm going to try halving the min fuel milligrams.
I'm also boost ref on the FPR.
My map goes down to 20kpa.

[joshmith]

Cam is only a TR224 which is 224/224 .565ish. Oddly the lean tips got me on this whole problem. I lowered the min fuel milligrams to .031 but I also change a couple other things as well and it fixed the lean tips but now I have huge long rich tips on decel and idle. I have a problem of changing a couple things and then cant figure out what change effected what so I am going to start over on the injector data and go from there as I sorta have it narrowed down the short pulse adder/ offset/ and min pulse width.

Wow, my min fuel milligrams were at .028 from factory, you're over that after lowering. I would definitely lower that a little more, like .020ish. Also, I asked about your cam, this wont help your current problem but it needs to be done anyway. Look at Fuel>General>"injection Timing" Boundry and Normal. You need to add "some" to these. There's quite a long thread about it here and there doesn't seem to be a good way to calculate exactly how much you should add but if your running more duration than stock you need an increase. A local here informed me of this, after increasing mine from 6.50 to 6.63 my wideband read 14.7 at idle and before this it would never get leaner than 14.4 (in closed loop) and my idle vacuum also increased slightly.

[joshmith]

Josh, you are in the same boat as me. I'm going to try halving the min fuel milligrams.
I'm also boost ref on the FPR.
My map goes down to 20kpa.

Good Luck, I've noticed that in OL if I stay in the 30kpa row on decel AFR's are right on the money but if I go lower than that it gets richer. If I lower the 30 row to make it happy in the 20's then the trims go way positive in the 30 row, which causes a momentary rich spike when I get back on the throttle, until the trims swing back the other way. It doesn't really hurt anything I just don't like it, I want oem like fuel control under all conditions. I suspect why I don't see anyone else ever talk about this is, it just doesn't bother them or they're running so much cam they never make that much vacuum. I'm anxious to see if you make any progress.

[RonSSnova]

I need dry days to play. Although street legal, no inner fenders and no wipers. Maybe tomorrow!
Ron

[LSXtreme]

Wow, my min fuel milligrams were at .028 from factory, you're over that after lowering. I would definitely lower that a little more, like .020ish. Also, I asked about your cam, this wont help your current problem but it needs to be done anyway. Look at Fuel>General>"injection Timing" Boundry and Normal. You need to add "some" to these. There's quite a long thread about it here and there doesn't seem to be a good way to calculate exactly how much you should add but if your running more duration than stock you need an increase. A local here informed me of this, after increasing mine from 6.50 to 6.63 my wideband read 14.7 at idle and before this it would never get leaner than 14.4 (in closed loop) and my idle vacuum also increased slightly.

Thanks for the heads up on the injection timing. I have never messes with that table.

After doing some drives I lowering the Min Injector pulse and adjusting the Short Pulse Adder (very close to yours) I was able to get the rich decel/idle to go away. However..... Now I have the fuel trims asking for a ton of fuel (+15-20) on Decel and off throttle. Idle seems to be OK though with only +5ish.

[THE CHAD]

LSXtreme if need be I have a good injector set-up etc for 60lb .....cheers Bret

[LSXtreme]

LSXtreme if need be I have a good injector set-up etc for 60lb .....cheers Bret

I PM'd you, thanks!

[THE CHAD]

LSXtreme, PM'd you a question about what you would need mate....Once I know what you need will send set up.... no drama enjoy helping others cheers Bret