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Thread: TCC Duty cycle

  1. #1
    Tuner Roundhouseman's Avatar
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    TCC Duty cycle

    I've made some changes in the trans tables. The TCC Duty cycles are set to 100% and 50%. The duty cycle drops down momentarily in second gear ( can feel it in the truck sometimes). Can some one please have a look at the log & tune and let me know if its normal behavior or am I missing something?

    2009 V8 Colorado Z71 4WD 8-13-13 TCC 100 & 50-2.hpt8-13-13-3.hpl

    This is a trans log
    8-13-13-4.hpl
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  2. #2
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    Anyone? Ideas?

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    If you start playing with the TCC DC min/max tables, better to set the min to like 90-95% and the max to 95-100%. 50-100% is way too big of a gap, Ive had it cause funky issues before when I played with it. Usually use 95% for low and 98-100% for max.
    ~Erik~
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22 View Post
    If you start playing with the TCC DC min/max tables, better to set the min to like 90-95% and the max to 95-100%. 50-100% is way too big of a gap, Ive had it cause funky issues before when I played with it. Usually use 95% for low and 98-100% for max.
    Thank you! I'll try it this week end. I did try 100 for the max and 90 for the min tables. I can feel the duty cycle change when in 2nd gear but not every shift cycle. I wonder if there is something different with the Colorado ecm/tcm. I can't zero out the Trans Torque management Reduction Duration with out the truck randomly only getting 20% TPS and 2000 rpm (with no codes or messages), "Reduction Duration" has to have a small value in that table in order to have no issues getting full throttle. I was 65 miles from home after I flashed with zeros in the Reduction Duration table when it decided it was gonna do that. There is another member here with a 09 ecm and tcm with the same issue.
    I will take a close look at the tables and change them within the values you mentioned. Not too many Colorado files in the repository to compare to. I also noticed that having the duty cycle at 100% increases the engine load and the engine needs tuned to avoid a KR condition. I've done as much reading as I can find and I am learning. Thanks for helping!
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    Adjusting the TCC DC min/max shouldnt have ANYTHING to do with KR and you really shouldnt be commanding the TCC on in 2nd gear (didnt look in your tune to see if it is or not, just going off your comment that it feels different in 2nd gear).
    ~Erik~
    2013 Sonic RS - manual, CGM, 6M, sunroof, mods in process
    2008 TrailBlazer 3SS AWD LS2, loaded, dropped, modded, SE22 Performance tuned. And then some...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22 View Post
    Adjusting the TCC DC min/max shouldnt have ANYTHING to do with KR and you really shouldnt be commanding the TCC on in 2nd gear (didnt look in your tune to see if it is or not, just going off your comment that it feels different in 2nd gear).
    TCC apply isn't being commanded in second or third, the TCC duty cycle starts I think when in first gear. In second gear the duty cycle drops as does line pressure momentarily then picks back up. TCC apply does come on in 4th gear. With the stock TCC DC max & min settings the issue isn't noticeable. I reduced the force motor By 10%, should I put that back to the stock setting? I turned off all TQ mgt except the Reduction Duration because of how it causes the ETC to only allow 20% TPS and 2000 rpm. Do you thing there may be a valve body issue? The transmission assembly was replace under warrantee at 67,000 miles and the truck now has 116,000 on the clock. As far as seeing a little KR activity, it looks like that may be caused by heat soak of the air box. IAT temp is @20* higher than ambient. Only occurs when IAT temp reads high. I will try what ever needed. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roundhouseman View Post
    TCC apply isn't being commanded in second or third, the TCC duty cycle starts I think when in first gear. In second gear the duty cycle drops as does line pressure momentarily then picks back up. TCC apply does come on in 4th gear. With the stock TCC DC max & min settings the issue isn't noticeable. I reduced the force motor By 10%, should I put that back to the stock setting? I turned off all TQ mgt except the Reduction Duration because of how it causes the ETC to only allow 20% TPS and 2000 rpm. Do you thing there may be a valve body issue? The transmission assembly was replace under warrantee at 67,000 miles and the truck now has 116,000 on the clock. As far as seeing a little KR activity, it looks like that may be caused by heat soak of the air box. IAT temp is @20* higher than ambient. Only occurs when IAT temp reads high. I will try what ever needed. Thank you!
    You are playing with different things here, some are related and some aren't.

    TCC duty cycle shouldnt be commanded until 3rd gear and even then, ONLY when lockup is commanded by the TCM. I have yet to see it commanded in 1st or 2nd, however I also havent logged it to a great extent.

    Force motor doesnt have anything to do with the TCC, but it has EVERYTHING to do with line pressure...
    ~Erik~
    2013 Sonic RS - manual, CGM, 6M, sunroof, mods in process
    2008 TrailBlazer 3SS AWD LS2, loaded, dropped, modded, SE22 Performance tuned. And then some...
    2002 TrailBlazer LT 4WD 4.2L I6, lifted, tires, exhaust, SE22 Performance tuned

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    In the trans log starting at frame 3620. Trans SS Pressure mode is 2nd TCC Off. The TCC PWM Duty cycle picks up at @ 8mph in first gear @ 1300rpm to 100%. TCC mode is OFF. Just after 2nd gear shift the TCC Mode changes from OFF to Release Off then Line pressure drops to 0.0 Psi, next TCC PWM Duty Cycle drops to 50%, Release Delay then Release FS with 119 psi, then the TCC PWM goes up to 100%. Here are a few snap shots. Would an increase in line pressure solve this or return the line pressure to stock? I'm all ears!


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    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

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    I changed the Force motor back to stock, put the TCC DC Max & Min to 100 & 90, disabled the Freeze Adapts and Pressure override in Trans Diagnostic. This is a Transmission log & cfg I just did and it looks similar to the earlier listed log. Please tell me what you think.

    8-15-13-2.hpl09 Colorado Transmission.cfg
    This is the current tune.
    09 V8 Colorado 8-15-13 Freeze Adapts & Pressure Override disabled .hpt
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

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    I wonder if something that was zero'ed out is causing this. I will start by adding stock limits in the trans TQ Mgt and seet if the Duty Cycle only gets called for when actually needed. I'm thinking this because of the strainge issue when I zero out the Reduction duration. maybe there is a table that is causing the TCM to call for TCC Duty cycle and line pressure when it isn't needed. I have read that some odd things happen when some things are turned off. Any ideas or experiance?
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

    D.A.V.

  11. #11
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    Found your tune. I see you have maxed tables in TQ Management. Try putting all back in, then log delivered trans torque. Use that number to set your Limit tables, slightly above what it reports actually. Give it a try and see if it cleans this up
    Last edited by MMGT1; 08-16-2013 at 12:35 PM.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    Found your tune. I see you have maxed tables in TQ Management. Try putting all back in, then log delivered trans torque. Use that number to set your Limit tables, slightly above what it reports actually. Give it a try and see if it cleans this up
    I'll give it a go and report back.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

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    I started by putting the stock tune trans tables in. It would shift normal and I wouldn't feel the line pressure drop in the log (pressure drop still occurs). I then put the TCC DC Max & Min to 100/90. I then put the values back in that I had and set in the Shift Pressure tab under Adaptive Pressure "Upshift Adapt X" button to Disable. So far I am unable to feel the Line pressure drop.

    I still can't set the Duration Duration table to zero without having a random 20% throttle limit and 2000 rpm. Must be a table that is unseen and unable to change.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

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    It seems that the TCM is calling for the line pressure to drop when it expects the trans to shift even though it has done so already. I read something about the tire size and gear ratio and shift points so I tried updating the speedometer setting with the same values that were already there (that's what I measured too) and it changed the VSS Tire Revs Per/ Dist-Err to 405.03 and the Final Drive Ratio/ Err to 4.10. Just doing that smoothed out the Line Pressure and TCC PWM Duty Cycle. Finding out this changed how the TCC PWM Duty cycle and Line Pressure have been functioning I tried to set the TCC DC to 100/90 again. It just doesn't like to play that way. Time to do the valve body kit, take out the plastic parts and put the aluminum parts in it. Here is a picture of the updated Speedometer settings (left) vs the stock settings.


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    Any experiences???
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

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  15. #15
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    When you set max to 100 and min to 90 is it kicking too hard or just not working right? If it is hitting too hard keep the max at 100 and play with the min setting. In the v6's you really cant go over 55 for min or it hits way too hard as an example. So, if it is just hitting hard, lower your min and try that. Also remember to raise both your enable/disable speeds a little as it will feel like you have an extra gear in there if its coming in at too low of a speed
    2000 Trans Am WS6

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    When the limits are set to 100 & 90 the line pressure is commanded to drop out after the shift from 1st to 2nd. It is momentary and picks back up. It can be seen in the logs I posted. It isn't shifting too hard or too fast. When the line pressure drops out while in 2nd gear it feels like a momentary loss of power. Could this be a mechanical issue? Plastic accumulators? I raised the min table by 60% and added 1 to the entire max table. I can still feel once & a while the line pressure drop out and back in. I can do a current log to see how it's running after being flashed a little more than a week ago. Are there tables that can't be accessed? The reason I ask is the line pressure drop is commanded and I can not see what is commanding it.

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    I'm thinking this has to be either TQ management or MAF/Airflow related. SD or MAF/MAP tune here? Can you confirm your trans speedo settings with GPS? See if you have a match there? Also, get a scan of delivered trans torque if you can when this is happening. I'd like to see if you are commanding too low of pressure down low on the shift. From what I see in your tune, it is pretty low, but not sure here until seeing what is reported for torque at the shift. Commanded shift time may be something to look into as well here???
    2000 Trans Am WS6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    I'm thinking this has to be either TQ management or MAF/Airflow related. SD or MAF/MAP tune here? Can you confirm your trans speedo settings with GPS? See if you have a match there? Also, get a scan of delivered trans torque if you can when this is happening. I'd like to see if you are commanding too low of pressure down low on the shift. From what I see in your tune, it is pretty low, but not sure here until seeing what is reported for torque at the shift. Commanded shift time may be something to look into as well here???
    The speedometer is dead on with my Garmin Nuvi. The Tune is modified stock. I added shift pressure to the lower torque range on the tables. I also increased the "Default" pressure that is under the Shift Pressure tab under "Other". I also set the TCC DC Max & Min to 100/90. I changed the MAF back to stock and it didn't change the line pressure drops so I put 7.5% back on the table. I also tried to lower the 1-2 shift time a little with no noticeable change. I logged Traction Control Torque % and not sure what its purpose is but it has allot of activity. In engine Torque Management tab the only TCS left active was the ETC. The Temp and % cells are stock settings. The line pressure drops occur at the following frames 943, 2008, 2034, 3989 (3rd gear), 4026, 4583, 5437 and 6653.

    Attached are the cfg, log and tune
    09 Colorado Transmission.cfg
    9-9-13-6.hpl
    09 V8 Colorado 9-9-13 Increased shift pressure.hpt
    The man on top of the mountain didn't walk there.............

    D.A.V.

  19. #19
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    Can you try copying your high timing table to your low, fail the MAF and see if it does it still? Set your OL Fuel Tables to 1.0 to keep it stoich in cruise range and intake temp range
    2000 Trans Am WS6

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    I will do it this weekend and report back. Thank you.