Audi RS6 + 383TT - 3 bar SD tune review help

[timmmy]

Morning all,

I am wondering if some of you HP Tuners guru's who have experience with 3bar SD tuning for V8 TT applications could take a look at my base tune file and log. I am a relative noob with HP Tuners and with the LS motors so any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I learn the ropes here. I have a lot of experience with SEM edu tuning such as Vipec, VEMS etc, but HP Tuners is a little different.

Some details on the project to get started:


2003 Audi RS6, purchased without a motor.
LS1 from a 2004 GTO fitted last year, retaining Audi AWD via an adapter plate and custom FW and clutch, race prepared 01E 6spd AWD transmission etc.

I ran the car NA on a 1bar SD tune last year, but lost a fuel pump while on track and cooked the motor Since then the motor has been built and a lot of things changed, the following is the latest info.

LS1 stroked to 383 with a SCAT crank and rods, forged custom pistons with 9:1 CR
AFR Mongoose 230 heads
Custom ground cam for high rev / high boost, I can provide specs if needed. Compcams 1.75 roller rockers etc
LS6 intake, flipped with 102m electronic throttle (GM)
custom headers feeding a single 4" exhaust to the rear subframe
Dual rear mount 3076 turbos .56 intake .60 exhaust, rear mount intercooler with 3" feed back to the motor. Manual boost controllers only
(I have a blade style Hitachi MAF in the boost tube close to the throttle body, along with an internal and external IAT sensor)
Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors (HP tuners updated for these per their instructions)


Target once broken in is 20psi of boost, breaking in will be 5lb.

Here is a link to the build thread on Motorgeek: http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.p...901&start=1150

PIcture gallery:

1) https://plus.google.com/photos/11767...521?banner=pwa

2) https://plus.google.com/photos/11767...105?banner=pwa

Youtube channel (personal) http://www.youtube.com/user/timmmy
Youtube channel (business) http://www.youtube.com/user/HTMotorsport

Last dyno session (with the 1 bar SD tune in place, just to get things checked out. had some issues which are now resolved)

Attachment 39864Attachment 39865

I took the 1 bar SD tune from last year, changed a bunch of stuff and converted to 3bar, then changed a bunch more stuff. The car now fires up, idles, runs and drives pretty well. The next step is to get on the dyno with my tuner (Alex from granite state dyno in NH www.dynonh.com) Before I get there I would like to get as close as possible so Alex can focus on fine tuning as opposed to setting up the basics.


Attached are my latest HPT file and a startup log from yesterday.

Thanks for any input.

Haydn
www.motorsport-HT.com

[timmmy]

Slight update and an issue to look into.

I just took it for a spin round the block, and had the thing die on me when it hit higher boost (5+psi), it threw DTC codes and would just crank with no start until I cleared the DTC's

Log file attached

[Pekka_Perkeles]

Where's the tune file?

[timmmy]

Hi,

Sorry I thought I had them attached. I am travelling on vacation so this is the first chance I have had to get online.

Here are the files (hopefully)

Timmmy

[Pekka_Perkeles]

Boost-referenced fuel system? If so, use 0 kpa vacuum values at Injector Offset vs. Volts. vs. Vacuum in all columns.

I would lower the PE delay to something like 500 rpm.. Also, use same values in PE and BE, since it seems that in some cases BE isn't reacting (quickly enough or at all).

Since you have 102mm ETC, you may need to play with ETC Area Scalar. Or just tune other idle parameters, such as you've aready done.

You may need to increase MAF cylinder air max in Engine Diagnostics to avoid REP mode. Same with P0106 Error MAP calculated min/max.

[timmmy]

Boost-referenced fuel system? If so, use 0 kpa vacuum values at Injector Offset vs. Volts. vs. Vacuum in all columns.

Yeah its boost/vac referenced. I used the values supplied by the injector people (attached for ref). I will look at the file and review again.

I would lower the PE delay to something like 500 rpm.. Also, use same values in PE and BE, since it seems that in some cases BE isn't reacting (quickly enough or at all).

OK so here's where I need to get up to speed. As I am used to SEM ECU's I am still learning all the names of stuff in HP Tuners. PE I am now aware of, but what is 'BE'. treat me like a 5yr old when explaining stuff pls :P

Since you have 102mm ETC, you may need to play with ETC Area Scalar. Or just tune other idle parameters, such as you've aready done.

We had it pretty close with the 1bar tune, but for sure things have shifted with the bar and i need to work on that a little.

So here's another question for you. As I have teh LS6 intake, I am using the ACDelco 3.3bar MAP sensor. I had read that people had to adjust the map sensor offset to get it to read 101KPA at key on, however when I was speaking with HP Tuners tech support they told me it should read 0 at key on. Anyone have experience on this?

You may need to increase MAF cylinder air max in Engine Diagnostics to avoid REP mode. Same with P0106 Error MAP calculated min/max.

Yeah, I am away on vacation this week so I cant do anymore testing on this stuff. The MAF will go once tuned but I need to see what codes are being thrown when I get back.

Hmmmm wont let me attach the injector spreadsheet *.xlxs file

[Pekka_Perkeles]

Since you have the boost-referenced system, the values do not change as the pressure which injector sees (between fuel rail and intake pressure) stays the same. That's the reason for using the 0 kpa columns. If you check again the injector data, you can see that those values in the Excel have red frames (at least in 2000 cc Excel which I'm familiar with).

PE: Power Enrichment
BE: Boost Enrichment

What I've seen in HP Tuners logs, at least in C5 Vettes, the kpa value is zero with KOEO (Key on Engine off).

For the 3 bar sensor offset values, just search here with the part number you have. Also, I've had back luck with 3.3 bar MAP sensor. The engine goes to a REP mode while cruising. I know some others have had similar problems. However, I don't know if there are several 3.3 bar sensors and I don't have the part number available for the one I had problems with. Again, do a search here in this forum.

One more thing. With 3 bar upgrade, MAF is not used anymore. So remove it from the Table Display in Scanner. You may already done this, though. Furthermore, the PCM still probably calculates the values for the Engine Diagnostics purposes.

Have a nice vacation.

[timmmy]

Awesome reply thnakyou, and than ks for explaining the termnology, it is much appreciated while I get up to speed.

Since you have the boost-referenced system, the values do not change as the pressure which injector sees (between fuel rail and intake pressure) stays the same. That's the reason for using the 0 kpa columns. If you check again the injector data, you can see that those values in the Excel have red frames (at least in 2000 cc Excel which I'm familiar with).

I thought I had it setup like this, you are correct, the injector data has the first cell in red in the spreadsheet and should be used in all cells. I will double check I did this correctly.

PE: Power Enrichment
BE: Boost Enrichment

Thankyou

What I've seen in HP Tuners logs, at least in C5 Vettes, the kpa value is zero with KOEO (Key on Engine off).

Cool

For the 3 bar sensor offset values, just search here with the part number you have. Also, I've had back luck with 3.3 bar MAP sensor. The engine goes to a REP mode while cruising. I know some others have had similar problems. However, I don't know if there are several 3.3 bar sensors and I don't have the part number available for the one I had problems with. Again, do a search here in this forum.

I had read the same thing on a few forums so I dont really trust that sensor. I will take your advice and read up on it some more. Having said that I will buy the traditional big package sensor and swap that in to ensure no issues there.

One more thing. With 3 bar upgrade, MAF is not used anymore. So remove it from the Table Display in Scanner. You may already done this, though. Furthermore, the PCM still probably calculates the values for the Engine Diagnostics purposes.

Have a nice vacation.

I have it in there at the mo so I can monitor the flow during setup. I believe i have it all zero'd out correctly so the PCM is failing it out and going to SD. Can you take a quick look and see if that is the case please?

Aslo I am wondering if having it in the table being logged somehow re-enables it? Is it OK to have it in there at all?

Cheers

H

[Pekka_Perkeles]

I have it in there at the mo so I can monitor the flow during setup. I believe i have it all zero'd out correctly so the PCM is failing it out and going to SD. Can you take a quick look and see if that is the case please?

Aslo I am wondering if having it in the table being logged somehow re-enables it? Is it OK to have it in there at all?

I think you have failed MAF properly so that the PCM goes into Speed Density.

Some folks put zero on the MAF table as well (Engine/Airflow/General/MAF calibration), but it may not be necessary. I typically use zeros in it. Sometimes folks also put small value in the first cell. Just try what works with you. If the engine starts without any strange problems and if you can get the MAF DTC's, then it should be ok. You can later remove the MAF DTC's by unchecking "SES enable"

Then having MAF in the Table Display:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-Speed-Density

It's really up to you if you want to have MAF there or not. I would say it's fine when you have gained lots of experience with HP Tuners. But since that's not the case, it's kind of asking more problems than you really want to face. So try to minimize all unknown things now.

[timmmy]

Boost-referenced fuel system? If so, use 0 kpa vacuum values at Injector Offset vs. Volts. vs. Vacuum in all columns.

I would lower the PE delay to something like 500 rpm.. Also, use same values in PE and BE, since it seems that in some cases BE isn't reacting (quickly enough or at all).

Since you have 102mm ETC, you may need to play with ETC Area Scalar. Or just tune other idle parameters, such as you've aready done.

You may need to increase MAF cylinder air max in Engine Diagnostics to avoid REP mode. Same with P0106 Error MAP calculated min/max.

OK, I had a quick look, how do these look?

2013-07-02_Fuel page settings.jpg

[Pekka_Perkeles]

OK, I had a quick look, how do these look?

2013-07-02_Fuel page settings.jpg

I never use "Hot Select" for PE Throttle. I leave it as stock. I guess it's original intention has been to protect engine when overheating. Anyway, leave it as stock. Instead, you may adjust the actual threshold when the PE activates based on "Cold" table, which is based on how much throttle you use. I'm not familiar with fast-spooling turbos, so be careful and ask advice from other guys also or be very careful in dyno.

Enrichment ramp is good for forced induction, as well as PE delay.

The Injector Offset vs, Battery etc.. is probably now ok, although I've never used the 3D graph for it, just the values instead. But by quickly comparing with a bit similar setup, I'd say it's now ok.

By the way, you americans seem to have very short vacation. Here in Europe it's not uncommon to have 4...5 weeks of vacation. :-)