So I installed a new fuel rail with some 50# injectors. I got them from FIC and they said
"Tuning is a snap as it is the same injector that is programmed in the LS1 computer Set the new IFR and go!" And that's what I did now the A/F is all over the place and WOT pulls it takes a second for power to kick in. I have been using the tuning school books to help me but it's not helping to much. Please let me know what tables I need to play with or if you see something obvious. Thanks
Last edited by CHrisInGermany; 06-11-2013 at 05:51 PM.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Also the chart for the injectors for the flow rate of cc500 the pressure was 43.5lb. I have a fuel press gauge and I am at about 52lb in fuel rail. Do I need to add more to the Injector flow rate table?
Edit: So after I pulled up a calculator it said the pressure difference from 43.5 to 52 the injector flows from 50b/hr to 54.6b/hr
Last edited by CHrisInGermany; 06-11-2013 at 06:30 PM.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
So I changed the injector size again for the higher fuel pressure and still runs like crap...I am scratching my head now.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Welcome to FIC injectors and data. My next set will be ID's
My setup is a 356ci with a 260/268 (212/218 at .050 lift) duration cam with aluminium corvette heads and flat top pistons running 11.3 comp. ratio. with tuned port injection and vortec crank pick up and dizzy running a 411 pcm and 60lb bosch injectors, 1.6 ratio roller rockers.For transmission its a 4l65e built with the monster in a box mega ss kit.
All in a 92 chevy ext cab 4x4 pickup with a 98 cab now installed with a third door!
running only e85
Man I had high hopes for this set up. Is that really all it is? Crappy injectors or am I missing something?
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Haven't seen much good about FIC and my 60 lbers are from them
My setup is a 356ci with a 260/268 (212/218 at .050 lift) duration cam with aluminium corvette heads and flat top pistons running 11.3 comp. ratio. with tuned port injection and vortec crank pick up and dizzy running a 411 pcm and 60lb bosch injectors, 1.6 ratio roller rockers.
First you need to disable DFCO and closed loop. Then change your open loop table to 1.00 at operating temps.
And I see that you have a 1 bar map os, yet your not in SD mode.
Russ Kemp
You can tune them in but not a easily as injectors with good known data
My setup is a 356ci with a 260/268 (212/218 at .050 lift) duration cam with aluminium corvette heads and flat top pistons running 11.3 comp. ratio. with tuned port injection and vortec crank pick up and dizzy running a 411 pcm and 60lb bosch injectors, 1.6 ratio roller rockers.
Well I took Russ' advice and looked in one of my books for VE tuning and I helped out a lot. I was mainly going with the tuning school but it did not mention messing with the VE tables. So far running a lot better. I still have to do some messing with WOT. here is my latest tune. Please let me know what you guys think.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Now you still need to disable your fuel trims. Why is your wideband set to % instead of AFR?
Russ Kemp
When you say disable fuel trims are you talking about in the OL/CL under fuel. I just looked at it and they both say disabled in SDtune. Also just changed AFR from % to (afr).
Last edited by CHrisInGermany; 06-13-2013 at 09:47 PM.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Look at your scan log, the fuel trims are moving, your in closed loop. Set the closed loop enable temp to 140*C.
Russ Kemp
Russ thanks for all the help on this I feel like a total punk when it comes to this stuff. When you say enable temp to 140* I am confused as to where you are talking about
Is it the temp on the right hand side or in the ECT vs. IAT table?
Capture.PNG
Edit: Never mind I seen it in my guide in the ECT vs. IAT table.
Last edited by CHrisInGermany; 06-14-2013 at 01:13 AM.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
So started scanning and my afr/VE table is all over the place. Also with the fuel pressure difference noted above should I up the injector size.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Hsquared racing engines RHS 427, Procharger F2, Moran Billet Atomizer injectors, Alky Control,Mast LS7 heads, Nitrous outlet kit,Tilton quad disc clutch, DSS shaft, RKT56 ZR1 trans, RPM Quaife diff. Built and tuned by yours truly.
So now I have been driving around trying to get this VE table correct and I have done 10+ decent drives but the table will not get any better in some areas. I will log copy paste and log more and it still seems the same error% almost every time. Please let me know what you guys think or if I am missing something. Thanks- Chris
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
Your Short Pulse Adder is still stock (and apparently no good data is available for your new injectors). I would blindly divide all current values in Engine/Fuel/General/Short Pulse adder, i.e use half of the values. I expect that newer injectors are faster or more linear than older, original LS1 injectors.
By doing that, you might get a bit more consistent results, even though in many areas you seem to have made a good job, getting the error fairly small. Getting uunder 5% constantly is challenging with unknown injector data.
You might also consider filtering a histogram a bit. You can set cell hits required to, well, for example "5" and load data again to see how the histogram now looks.
Well I was hoping that the injector data was going to be the same as the stock (except the flow rate) as per FIC's web site. So yes other than changing flow rate I didn't touch anything. I will change the histogram to more hits and see how that goes.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
So I was sick of dealing with the 50# injectors so I put the old 28# (stock) back in and did some SD tune scanning. My first scan was way off so I copy/paste and drove some more and the VE table went completely the other way. Is this normal or am I missing something. Here are the scans one on the left is first scan one on right is after I copy/paste and did another scan.
1/4-12.84@108 with just muffler and ported MAF (back in 04')
02 Artic White Z28, M6, 348Hp/378tq, T-top, LCA relocation, Adj LCA's, Adj TqArm, Panhard relocation, Adj Panhard, Shock tower brace, 3-point SFC(All UMI) Strano Sway bars/Springs. Hooker LT, 3"TD with H-pipe, 1 chamber flowmasters, Monster stage 2, lightweight flywheel, MGW Shifter, 2010 Camaro Brembo front brake swap. Professional Products fuel with 50# Injectors.
You have to have the right data. Just because it is the same injector does not mean anything, its not the same it is now a 50# vs. a 28#. The ecu uses milligrams of fuel (mass) to determine the correct amount of fuel to add to the current or actually 3 steps ahead of the incoming air. So it basically breaks it down into single pulses of fuel at predetermined MS(pulse width) on how much mass is delivered. Do you think a 50# injector delivers the same amount of mass per shot as a 28#. You SPA table tells the ECU at a given PW to add this amount of time (ms) to the pulse so that the correct amount of fuel mass is delivered. You can't cut and paste data from one injector to another. So here is your fix, look on the internet for a set of Bosch Green 42lb injectors, they are 42lb at 3 bar and 48 at 4 bar. There is data available for these injectors.
Reply With Quote