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Thread: Dave's Flex fuel module & Alky Control kit details

  1. #1

    Dave's Flex fuel module & Alky Control kit details

    Dave's flex fuel module arrived this weekend and I couldn't wait to wire her up to work with the Alky control kit.

    The results were amazing, I have it setup where if the pump achieves pressure (green light on Alky control kit) the module pulls to ground and tell the PCM 100% Alcohol is entering the system. At which point you can add timing only when you're spraying methanol, as well as you can lean out your fuel system as soon as meth hits in the Stoich table.

    Here is what it took to make this work.

    You need a DPDT (double pole double throw) relay where one throw is normally closed, while the other is normally open. Reason being is the pressure switch on the pump pulls to ground when there is no pressure, and once pressure is achieved, it actually opens the circuit. When circuit is open (alky control kit not pulled to ground) that means there is pressure and the light on the alky goes green.

    We want the opposite to happen for the flex fuel module, we want to pull to ground once pressure is achieved instead of the opposite.

    By using a DPDT relay that has 6 pins (one throw normally open, one throw normally closed) using the following:

    -Red wire going to meth pump goes to relay for constant power with key on
    -One wire will go from relay to one end of pressure switch on meth pump
    -Wire from other end of pressure switch on meth pump will go to ground
    (above is done so depending on what pressure switch does, it pulls the relay on and off)
    -Two ends on relay will go to direct ground (tie into wire from pressure switch thats always grounded, bottom wire on pump)
    -One end on relay goes to alky control kit wire thats normally goes into one end of pressure switch
    -Last end on relay goes to flex fuel module.

    The above is the basics, once you look at a DPDT one throw normally open, one closed relay you'll see how its done, simple.

    The idea is that once you are key on, the relay is energized because the pump with no pressure pulls to ground. The throw that opens the circuit in this condition (key on no pressure) goes to the flex fuel module, the idea is that when there is no pressure, we create an open to the flex fuel module so it does not activate. When this is happening, we want to keep the concept the same for the alky control kit, so no pressure means it pulls alky to ground.

    Once pressure is achieved in the pump, the pressure switch opens, this de-energizes the DPDT relay, creating an open to the alky control kit which gives you the green light as intended, but actually pulls the flex fuel module to ground.

    I'll post a video on you tube later tomorrow perhaps how it works.

    It's really neat, because you are now much safer running meth to add power this way. If the pump fails during a run, your light on alky will go red and the flex fuel module will tell the PCM no alcohol, so you revert back to regular timing and fueling.

    Best part is you still maintain the functionality of your test button on the alky kit, if you press it, you will see the car bog while cruising and your A/F will dip indicating the nozzle is not clogged because the flex fuel module will only add timing in PE mode for those who use it for what I want.

    You can tune meth by spraying on the IAT, but its not always the best way, I've noticed that once you spray the IAT it reacts real fast to colder temp, but even if meth stops flowing, it takes a while for the IAT to go up in temp, mainly because the IAT is still wet. The other drawback of of tuning for power using IAT is in Canada, you'd need a winter tune, because when I spray in the summer, the IAT temps go down to the same temps as no meth in the winter, so the tune is off.

    Using Dave's flex module and using the pressure switch to add / remove timing or fueling if you like, is the safest by far.

    Sorry for the long thread but this toy is really cool!! I'll post a vid later.
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    Last edited by mourat; 06-05-2013 at 03:10 AM.

  2. #2
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    Very nice writeup. If I find some time I may look at doing something like this.
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  3. #3
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Nice write up. It's cool to see the integration into the factory PCM to really maximize the benefit of meth injection while maintaining a failsafe if it doesn't pressurize.

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  4. #4
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    Nice use and write up! I finally recieved the -6an fittings yesterday. Hope to get it all installed this weekend. Damn summer school semester.

  5. #5
    Here is a vid as promised! The quality isn't great, basically when no Meth is on then you see 2% Alcohol, when Meth is ON, you will see it go to 100%, its the middle gauge I just put on for the purpose of this video, Green light on alky control kit = Meth 100% in HPT.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=JyhtOr3Z8Wo
    Last edited by mourat; 06-13-2013 at 07:19 AM. Reason: fixed link

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    Can you try to post the youtube link again? It says the video doesn't exist.
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  7. #7
    Fixed

  8. #8
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    very cool stuff. that would make me feel a lot better about tuning for meth.

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    Were do I find this module?

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    PM me.

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    Anyone point me towards a good source for an automotive DPDT relay?

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner ttz06vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire67 View Post
    Anyone point me towards a good source for an automotive DPDT relay?
    Would still love to see you guys package this as a kit! I would be first in line to buy one.

  13. #13
    Excellent use for the module. Great write up!
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    Just to add some info here for future users of this wiring diagram/setup. I encountered an issue with this setup on a 2010 Camaro. It may have been related to this OS missing the sensor diag delay adjustability, but a temporary fix I found it this...

    The relay needs to be powered all the time, not just by the alky control system like above.. More importantly, the relay needs to keep power during cranking. If it does not, the Flex Time module will go from reporting ~1% to ~100% ethanol and back while cranking. The Camaro ECM does not like this and does some funky stuff when this happens, including setting a SES light for a bad ethanol content sensor.

    One other thing I noticed, is that the Flex Time module also needs to be powered by a circuit that does not drop voltage during cranking. When this happens, at least in my case, the module reboots and causes similar issues to the above scenario with the check engine light.


    <<Almost forgot>> The relay described above can be had at RadioShack. Every one I checked in my area had at least 2 in-stock

  15. #15
    Can this be done on cars not labeled for E85? Im not sure my 07' C6 is Flex fuel capable
    It sounds like a great idea for a fail safe!

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 383 View Post
    Can this be done on cars not labeled for E85? Im not sure my 07' C6 is Flex fuel capable
    It sounds like a great idea for a fail safe!
    Yep!

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  17. #17
    Cool where exactly do I plug the module into so the PCM sees it?

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Depends on which ECM you're using. It manipulates the flex fuel capabilities of the ECM.

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  19. #19
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    Just got an update from HpTuners.. The 10 Camaro OS does not "have the code" for the sensor diag delay or the P0169. So neither will ever be available to modify in this OS.. Down to making it work like described above for wiring.

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    What tables are you adjusting to use this module? I have a 08 TBSS with E67 and I can found Flex-fuel enable/disable setting and some others under the fuel tab and the spark tab but I want to make sure I have access to the right tables before I buy the module from Dave.