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Thread: Why won't my idle lean out??

  1. #1

    Why won't my idle lean out??

    Its always rich. I've tried open loop, closed loop, and it doesn't matter. I hit 1.3 ms on my injector pulsewidth and it won't go lower. The only thing is when I look at my injector tables, I can't find where it gets 1.3 from. It looks like the lowest allowed is 1.13......Can anyone see what table is creating 1.3?Current.hpt

  2. #2
    sexy brandi.hplLog: Go to time 5:20 and you can see my AFR is really rich and the injectors are flat at 1.3

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Go to the Transient tab and lower the Min Fuel Milligram value.

    Russ Kemp

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Go to the Transient tab and lower the Min Fuel Milligram value.

    Russ Kemp
    Crap...I changed it but it is still hitting that value. Here is where I'm at, and it still won't lean outFresh Start.hpt

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by erics_02_z06 View Post
    Crap...I changed it but it is still hitting that value. Here is where I'm at, and it still won't lean outFresh Start.hpt
    Ok...I butchered the other injector tables and was table to get smaller times...still running rich, but my injectors are pretty big.

    I'm considering lowering my fuel pressure (I've got 96# at 60PSI)...I don't think I need them so big, I'm tempted to bring the pressure to 46 at the rail. Does anyone know what size injectors would be needed for a 402 running 12lbs of boost?

    Is there any issue with running lower pressure and bigger injectors??
    Last edited by erics_02_z06; 05-27-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Fresh Start_EH1.hpt

    Do you have a return style, boost referenced regulator? If so you can turn the fuel pressure down some.

    96s are pretty big for a 402 @ 12 psi. Depending on fuel, you could probably get by with as small as 60s rated at 45 psi. 80s would definitely get the job done.

    The voltage offset can't be right for those. Try this file though see if it's any better.
    Last edited by edcmat-l1; 05-28-2013 at 07:01 AM.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    Fresh Start_EH1.hpt

    Do you have a return style, boost referenced regulator? If so you can turn the fuel pressure down some.

    96s are pretty big for a 402 @ 12 psi. Depending on fuel, you could probably get by with as small as 60s rated at 45 psi. 80s would definitely get the job done.

    The voltage offset can't be right for those. Try this file though see if it's any better.
    Thanks bud I'll try it. The car used to be e85 which is why they are so big. yes its a return style with a boost referenced regulator. can I kick the pressure to 40 PSI you think? I'll get back to you with how your file helped

  8. #8
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    Dont know if this will help but when i was tuning my dads lq9 i coulnt lean/rich out the AFR. I tried everything i could of thought but nothing, only got it to work when i disactivated the O2 Sensors and then i had no further problems.

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner blownbluez06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erics_02_z06 View Post
    Thanks bud I'll try it. The car used to be e85 which is why they are so big. yes its a return style with a boost referenced regulator. can I kick the pressure to 40 PSI you think? I'll get back to you with how your file helped
    The discussion hasn't come up much, but I haven't heard of anyone having any luck below about 45psi on fuel pressure before it stops pulling fuel from the passenger tank. Log both sensors and watch to make sure they stay even or else you'll only have fuel available from the driver tank.
    Hsquared racing engines RHS 427, Procharger F2, Moran Billet Atomizer injectors, Alky Control,Mast LS7 heads, Nitrous outlet kit,Tilton quad disc clutch, DSS shaft, RKT56 ZR1 trans, RPM Quaife diff. Built and tuned by yours truly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by blownbluez06 View Post
    The discussion hasn't come up much, but I haven't heard of anyone having any luck below about 45psi on fuel pressure before it stops pulling fuel from the passenger tank. Log both sensors and watch to make sure they stay even or else you'll only have fuel available from the driver tank.
    Good point..didn't consider that at all. I just did another log...with the new injector data it was willing to lean out more. I went open loop and did the realtime VE tune. Only thing is...one sensor was hitting the floor when I leaned it out...does that mean I am commanding a PW that is too low for some of the injectors?? Here is a log

    Lean.hpl

  11. #11
    Tuner KFZ)^'s Avatar
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    does that mean I am commanding a PW that is too low for some of the injectors??
    Short answer: YES

    I am not aware of any injectors that are capable of that short a pulse. Let alone your gargantuan injectors.

    Also, your MAF is reporting 1.X grams per second of airflow, so that obviously is too low, but your struggles with getting your engine to idle most likely are centered around your high flow injectors.

    If I was you, I would regulate the pressure as low as possible for idle, then of course increase it with increased manifold pressure, via your regulator. I have zero firsthand experience with it, but trial and error would be the route I would take if it was me.

    After looking at your log again, it doesn't seem like that bad an idle, considering.

    A couple side questions: How did the engine idle when you ran it on E85? Why the change to gasoline?

    Good luck with it and keep us posted.
    2001 Corvette Z06

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by KFZ)^ View Post
    Short answer: YES

    I am not aware of any injectors that are capable of that short a pulse. Let alone your gargantuan injectors.

    Also, your MAF is reporting 1.X grams per second of airflow, so that obviously is too low, but your struggles with getting your engine to idle most likely are centered around your high flow injectors.

    If I was you, I would regulate the pressure as low as possible for idle, then of course increase it with increased manifold pressure, via your regulator. I have zero firsthand experience with it, but trial and error would be the route I would take if it was me.

    After looking at your log again, it doesn't seem like that bad an idle, considering.

    A couple side questions: How did the engine idle when you ran it on E85? Why the change to gasoline?

    Good luck with it and keep us posted.
    It ran nicely, but my local station stopped carrying e85 so it wasn't an option anymore. I'll keep playing with it, I'll bump the PW back up a little

  13. #13
    Tuner KFZ)^'s Avatar
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    OK, gotcha.

    We really gotta start writing our congressmen and somehow get the general public to realize that ethanol is an excellent fuel OPTION. Not the answer to everything, BUT AT LEAST AN OPTION. I think people get so freakin caught up in MILES PER GALLON that they never stop to think about MILES PER DOLLAR. And this is not even mentioning the high-performance attributes of ethanol.

    Where are you located, btw?
    2001 Corvette Z06

  14. #14
    Salt lake city....the closest station is about 45 minutes away now

    =KFZ)^;323840]OK, gotcha.

    We really gotta start writing our congressmen and somehow get the general public to realize that ethanol is an excellent fuel OPTION. Not the answer to everything, BUT AT LEAST AN OPTION. I think people get so freakin caught up in MILES PER GALLON that they never stop to think about MILES PER DOLLAR. And this is not even mentioning the high-performance attributes of ethanol.

    Where are you located, btw?[/QUOTE]