These are last nights tune and logs from the track.
2007 Saturn Sky Redline
Mods:
-maf relocate
-downpipe
-3" exhaust
-Custom tune
Best run was 13.8 but I feel that was human error on shifting not the tune really but open to suggestions... My car does have phantom KR like a mother though.
Some times it has 6* then 3* then none and back to 6* -__-
Im really new to tuning these but I figured I would take a gander at your files.....your air loads are really really high. Your MAF readings are really high compared to your VE readings. So you seem to be pushing a ton of air but not necessarily ingesting it. Your DALS arent high at all but your MALT is maxed early. I have my MALT smoothly increasing to 100 percent by 6300 rpms. Also youre hitting about 26 psi when youre seeing 6 degrees of KR and when you let off you surged to 30 psi. I would try smoothly increasing your MALT. Also why did you relocate your MAF and where to? Just asking for my personal knowledge. It seems to be maxing out early. I also have stock turbo settings, not sure why yours are different, gmpp maybe? Youre also commanding 18 degrees in the upper ranges. I would set this back to stock first and foremost and slowly add a degree at a time. My files are attached to my thread about KR if you want to take a look. My tune isnt the best by a long shot but you can have a look. Lowering my DALs killed my KR I was getting in fourth. Just figured I would try to help since no one has responded.
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
the surge is because aftermarket bov reacts a little slow. because the aftermarket bov is atmospheric it must be installed in the charge pipe after the intercooler usually right before the throttle body. this relocation prevents stalling when returning to idle.
wheelspins may cause the psi to spike especially when traction is suddenly regained as well so double check rpm and speed at time of surge. making the malt prevents traction control from closing the throttle body and since max torque is made usually around 33-3500 rpm the max airload torque table is maxed by 3300 rpm. if the turbo is aftermarket then yes you can push the max value back further and make the ramp more progressive.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Well his mod list doesnt state all of that but I could be wrong, im the newbie here. He is commanding 18* of timing which is way too much with what little mods he has posted with the boost levels I saw from his scan. Im used to dealing with GM 3800 motors, not these things.
Last edited by t24moore; 05-22-2013 at 01:42 PM.
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
I have all factory intake and 3" full open and I get 20* timing. 17-19 is common in lnf's
Depends on where you're at and the climate. Here in Houston its humid as hell. I haven't taken my timing that high but Im slowly increasing it 1 degree every time I have a few runs with no KR up top. Have you looked at his scans? He knocked 3 degrees, went up to 4.5 degrees after the shift, then went to 6* the rest of the run. Hes commanding 18* but the car is struggling to hold even 12* because of all the KR. His boost pressures are exceeding 25 psi at times. He probably can run 18* of timing but I would bet not averaging 23-25 psi. Not trying to be argumentative but he thinks this is phantom knock when its not. And it would suck to see him blow his motor because of what he is "supposed" to be able to run. His tune is exceeding his mod level in my opinion. I could use some of you all expertise and that's the reason im here. But from my experiences with Grand Prixs what one person can run from the next varies wildly. I was always taught that its best to slowly increase from the base rather than just throwing loads of timing at it because others can run it. I'm sure your tune it dialed in pretty well. If you take a look at his scans you will see what I'm talking about. What boost levels are you running cobalt?
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
eric and i are both in florida and fuel quality is very close to same. the plants that supply the oralando/daytona area also supply the pensacola side of florida up in the gulf. just double checked my tune and i got 21* at 5000 and hitting 17* by 40000 i start at 15 at 3000 and 12.5 at 2800. i run 24 psi on this tune and the ones ive made for others as well. my average timing nets an average max of 18.3* but since the computer only controls timing to .5* accurately and with effect id say its closer to an 18* max avg.
oh and maf matching to ve lb/min on a factory lnf turbo will net no gains. for stock the most power is made moving the exhaust cam just a tad and let the numbers land where they land. now with an aftermarket turbo matching is easier and the trq on the dyno 98% of the time has agreed (well at least for the dyno results ive gotten the dyno agrees with the last two statements)
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 05-22-2013 at 06:51 PM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
The thing is sometimes it has zero KR and others it has some and others it has tons.... This perticular log has timing pull.... but lately its been giving me what I am commanding. I have reverted my tables to stock and at stock timing and boost with all smoothed out and maf corrected it still KR's @ 3-4Originally Posted by t24moore
This car has been doing this since day one and its confusing.
This latest tune shows how when i tried to removed that 26PSI spike and maintaining it at 24 it showed 0 KR but timing was at almost 0 -__- What is going on???
I honestly think that scan looks a whole lot better with my limited knowledge, You only got KR from 4.7k rpms to 5.5k rpms where it tapered off, I bet if you would have kept in it it would have went to zero. You can try to slightly lower the DALs in that area to see if that helps. I had to lower mines in almost that same area to get rid of my KR. Then I was able to increase timing from 5k+ with zero KR. The ECU was also adding fuel so maybe try to massage the MAF correction table there a bit. Interestingly, your MAF is seeing 12 khz when you started knocking....do you have an aftermarket turbo? I didnt think the stock unit could see that freq but I may be wrong. Have you done any smoothing on your timing? Seems to be pretty erratic as well. That seems to help a bit as well. Hopefully one of these more knowledgeable people such as cobalt can chime in and help.
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
CBSSOB and I are working on this tune last night. We raised the torque table to 100% and smoothed out the rest of it and also modified the MALT Table and KR is way down but timing also dropped....
Any ideas?
Your air load is 335% and you're spiking to 27 psi, thats why your timing is pretty much zero. Boost and timing is a balancing act, in my opinion you're still pushing way too much. The smoother the boost comes on the less spikes you have resulting in loads like you have. Thats why I feel its better to have a smooth MALT and DAL. It doesnt give you that initial kick in the ass but overall you will be faster. Plus if youre on the stock turbo youre just pushing hot air, the additional timing will be much better than the boost. Another thing to look at is on the MALT table. If you smooth it around 2500 rpms you will see that hpt lowers the curve there because that where the car makes max torque. This has nothing to do with your issue but my car responded smoother when I lowered the MALT here. Just idea.
Another thing I thought about is that if you put the timing table back to stock those values would be for the boost pressures that stock motors achieve. Therefore, the ECM will lower the timing to compensate for the extra air that it sees. If you feel comfortable with the boost pressures you can always increase the timing in those areas.
Last edited by t24moore; 05-23-2013 at 04:48 PM.
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
I am tuning now again on it and am doing the following.
Lowering dals a little and wgdc to maintain a solid 24PSI
Going to monitor commanded advance and actual advance to see how it works out. so far as I have lowered the boost the timing has come up on its own.
On its own? Really? I could understand not being lower than commanded (higher than before) but changing on its own sounds odd...
Sounds good ericemir, those nasty spikes were driving the timing down. I was looking at your turbocharger settings, where are these from? I dont know anything about these tables and im a tad bit scared to touch them lol
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Heads, ST5 Cam, Comp Turbo 6765 Intercooled, E85
Reply With Quote