Awesome, that's great information.Originally Posted by projectlnf
Awesome, that's great information.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
Sorry to jump in, I am new to the cruze 1.4T (just bought a 2013 m6)
Are any of you not doing the classic 'disable MAF' and tune VE, then run MAF only and tune the MAF Curve with a wideband, then going into all of the tq tables?
Is there a reason why not?
No one runs MAF only? (High RPM disable to 400rpm)?
No one is adjusting the EQ ratio (PE)?
I guess Trificta and VT do not do this, they must log specifics then adjust without using a WB
Last edited by smithers; 08-06-2013 at 11:34 AM.
I don't have a wideband installed on my car yet, so haven't touched fueling. In fact, I'm on stock tune.
Yes, I've adjusted PE. You are correct, Trifecta and VT are not logging wideband data unless their customers have a wideband and their datalogger collects that data.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
So you are adjusting boost and spark hoping your commanded fueling in OL is correct? How can you adjust PE if you dont know if your commanded PE is right? You just hope its not off from factory? (hope when commanding 11.7:1 that it IS) I would also hope then you have not modified anything that would throw fueling off (e.g. CAI)
Did you adjust the MAF table and or VE with Trims? (the parts that you could anyways)?
Ive always thrown a wideband and do up the VE table (though Im old school. e.g. LSB1) and run SD.
It seems you are one of the most active with tuning the E78...
Thanks for your time.
I guess I was wondering what VT and Trifecta were doing in the overall grand scheme of things.. my guess is adjusting using trims, some created histos and tables... changing tq managemnt and boost, and massage spark if needed.
Last edited by smithers; 08-06-2013 at 08:05 PM.
I havent' changed any of the fueling. Fuel trims are typically -3% to -5%, so I don't seem to be going lean anywhere. I haven't really messed with the tune too much, but with GM commanding 10.5 AFR in PE from the factory, I have no issues leaning that out a little bit. I know I'm playing with fire, which is why the tune is back to stock until I figure out if I really care enough to keep tuning or just realize it's an econobox and that's how it should be treated.
I have nothing modified on the car. I've never seen proof any single modification has a proven power gain(for the money) when timing/fuel isn't changed and I'm not enthusiastic enough anymore to spend my hard earned money on that data ;-)
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
Econobox... lol, true enough!
You would be correct, any modification would require a re-calibration, including something simple as CAI to be optimized and effective.
I figure at least Trifecta / VT do some sort of calibration based on non-wideband feed back, some adjustments could provide a better driver experience.
Any words of advice before one dives in (other than the information you have provided already - which is appreciated by all I'm sure)?
Yeah, try to run 93 octane fuel if you can and be prepared to pull timing ;-) The first post in this thread describes how to easily hit the 225kpa(18lbs) max boost limit on the stock tune. 235 to 240kpa(20lbs) is the highest I have asked my car to do and to get there requires relaxing the turbo overspeed tables and upping the pressure delta factor. I have tried both using the stock coolant temperature levels and then what most people consider "normal" of around 198 degrees. The turbo feels like it spools faster and in my logs I see similar effect when the stock coolant temperature is used. I'm guessing this is heating up the exhaust a bit more and resulting in a quicker spool.
Once I fill back up with 93 octane I'm going to start my tune over again from scratch and maybe include it in the first post as a "primer" for others.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
Be careful with cold air intakes for this car - the ZZP with the inner tube in place caused ~+10% trims for me - when I first logged it I was in shock - knock city in PE because it was crazy lean. I corrected the MAF calibration and loosened up the PE settings (richer and quicker engagement) and the car runs great on 17psi - no surging or bucking, no hesitation. It's just my opinion, but running any intake without a tune is pretty dangerous. I don't know where some people (on other forums) get the idea that the car compensates for intake changes, but it doesn't in anything but closed loop.
2013 Cruze Eco - CAI, Catless DP, Catless MP, ZZP FMIC, Ported Intake Manifold, Mild tune (17psi), best 43.5mpg, 175ftlbs (pid)
2008 Solstice GXP - ZFR 6758, catless, AEM stage 1 water/methanol injection, Hahn Racecraft Intercooler, solo street race cat back, LE5 throttle body - 307whp on a dyno dynamics (stock turbo numbers), 100 octane EFR6758 numbers - 463whp/454wtq
Unfortunately, most people (on other forums) are not even capable of installing a CAI themselves let alone understanding why the cal would need to be changed.
FYI, the Injen CAI made my trims go way negative. I took it off till I have time to put a wideband on it.
Last edited by snowvette; 08-27-2013 at 07:49 PM.
2007 Chevy Trailblazer SS AWD with boltons GP tuned
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 LTZ RS Vermount Stade 0 tuned
I just need to get off my ass and put a downpipe on my car. Already have the wideband sitting in its box. I'm really on the fence though because I'd like to retain that tasty 100k mile warranty.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
Or, just pull the narrow band long enough to dial it in.
I hear on the warranty. These things are far from bullet proof. I don't think I'm going to throw many, if any parts at this thing. The tune just about makes it tolerable.
2007 Chevy Trailblazer SS AWD with boltons GP tuned
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 LTZ RS Vermount Stade 0 tuned
Gh0st, did you figure out where the KR is coming from on partial throttle, even when you reduce the base spark table (or if it is indeed knock - not burst or other) ?
No, but I also haven't had any time to really do anything with it between work and moving to a new house. I'm going to be gone all next week too so I won't have time then either. I do believe the gas I had was bad as the part-throttle knock is much less now with a fresh tank, but I still get it(only around 1 degree). It's also hotter than hell right now. If anything, try going more aggressive on your IAT retard table for part throttle areas like Snowvette suggested doing.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
IAT retard doesnt seem to help...
WOT fine through the concern area, partial gets hit, kr... any other options other than out of the HO table?
Feel free to criticize...
I have posted. I would like to see zero knock all over before upping Driver demand or going for 225kpa. (final tune destination). ~19.5psi. Unless everyone recommends to stay under for a permanent tune.
Last edited by smithers; 08-23-2013 at 08:37 PM.
If you want closer to 19.5psi, you'll want to reach for 235kpa. Chris here on HPT has mentioned to stay under about 22psi and the guy on CruzeTalk says his service information says the turbo is good up to 20psi, but others have been running more.
In our tune file, there is a compressor efficiency table where you can see where the turbo starts to poop out. Looks like(from memory) around 1,110 lbs/min of airflow is where the turbo begins to struggle and lose efficiency quickly.
For all we know, it could be false knock as these cars do have quite noisy valvetrains(well, mine does at least). Best of luck and hope someone figures it out if it is real knock!
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
I have my boost /vac around 128kpa now (but starts to fall when 4000rpm approaches) want to see if I can make this more linear.
Good info, and yes, it appears 1,111 lbs/hr or 140g/sec its out of breath. or what appears to be anything over 200,000 rpm.
I want to figure out which knock it is, but for now, i have lowered the areas in the HO table.
Partial throttle and WOT through the trouble area are now gone. 0kr all over.
Ended up redoing timing all together, using the IAT vs g/cyl.
logging knock with this table in histogram and reducing / increasing accordingly.
One perplexing item is the boost.
Today is a 30°C day, so intake temps are 45 or 50 column.
Why would the boost have no problem going to 135kpa (0.79g/cyl) which is what I want during a different day and today, tt wont go over 115kpa?
No tables were touched. Is there a table that affects what boost is delivered vs temp?
Does anyone else have this issue?
I would like to have 19.5psi all the time any time, not 19.5 one day and 16.6 the next.
135kpa is hardly boosting when atmospheric pressure is ~100kpa. Are you logging the built in boost pressure sensor/pid whatever it is? Were you getting knock?
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
No no, 135 kpa boost. I go by this as the other varies based on that days ambient pressure. usually 89kpa, so a Baro measurement of 224kpa.
highest air pressure I have seen where i live is 93kpa and low as 88
Knock is mostly partial throttle, in the middle .40-.60g/cyl, 1800-3000rpm and letting off... and then I was getting KR on WOT today (hotter day vs the other day where I had none) - hence redoing everything through the IAT table. Much better results now for both temps. So no longer reading knock on WOT, but it still would not go higher for boost pressure as the other day. Desired = 207. which tables affect Desired ? I initially thought that I was running on the -1 column for Turbocharger Knock Mass Airmass... that would make sense... but there was no knock?
My 'other' good run the Desired was 217 and MAP was 224 and Boost/Vac was 134.9kpa. which means obtaining 19.5656psi. In your experience is MAP always higher than Desired?
I would also like to thank you for your time in responding! Greatly appreciated.
Your MAP and/or measured boost can definitely be higher than desired. All desired is is the ECM saying it wants to make this much boost, but other other factors will come in to play where you will make more.
I'll be back working on tunes this weekend, so maybe I can share my most current tune and detail how to open her up. Hint, the other Cruze tuning thread has some very good info from Chris on Page 11 I believe.
2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS
Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado
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