mind if we see your tune?
mind if we see your tune?
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
I only have about 3 logs on this tune so far. So dont judge the maf tables lol
IDK what part of the country you are in but in the last 3 weeks I've seen my local E85 go from E70 winter blend to E80 as the 'summer stock' gets delivered. It'll be E85 in another month as the tanks turn over. Don't assume your blend, get a cheap test tube tester.
Phat Bee is on E35 as I run out of fueling at 9 psi boost. lol.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
Im in Ohio currently. With the E going up to E85 from E70, what all wil change with that? I am getting no KR and Im running 24* timing. Im assuming my fuel trims will change with it, but what else?
Speaking of fuel trims, I think I have a small leak somewhere. My ltft's are always changing on me. They have been something different every day this past week...
They will move about 2% with wide temperature changes we see right now from morn vs afternoon unless you work on the temp compensation tables. I'd disable the ltft and dial in the maf first though. Odds are you are off in part of the range skewing the fueling at different loads in the maf correction table.
Since we add 30 % fuel for 75% more ethanol it can be derived that every 2.5% more ethanol will require 1% more fuel and vica versa.
Last edited by Iam Broke; 04-01-2013 at 05:47 PM.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
trq management cyl disable is active for all modes
Malt table is not supposed to be maxed it should be smoothed into max
dal tables also need smoothing
optimum trq table needs smoothing and raising
if iirc the higher concentration E blends are leaner than the 50% blend and this is due to needing the extra heat made to help speed the burn up. At a price you lower the timing but some cars make high/safe power with lean ratio's and low timing.
hom single low table will help with initial torque by lowering numbers you increase the injector window. the hom double compression will start a second injection burst during compression and by making this value smaller also helps us reach a higher maximum fuel flow.
return your maf base to 1.00 and spend more time dialing the maf and injection angles in before finalizing it with base table corrections.
do two logs per maf correction this way you get a two file average. morning and afternoon help gather results that will net a more precise change.
when your done if your boost dies hard i can help with that....
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 04-01-2013 at 07:13 PM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
If I disable the Tq Mgt Inj Disable table, thats just getting rid of the dfco. What is that going to do for the pull?
And Idk what the Optimum Tq Table even does really. So I don't feel comfortable raising it.
The crappy thing about getting a morning log and afternoon log is I live 2 miles form work. So my car isnt even 100% operating temp when I get to work. So the only real logs I get are after work.
raise the opt trq to 100 in the right column but smooth it in. its a table that helps calculate the trq output and raising it makes more power.
and as long as the disable table has 15 in the far right cells defco stays active. the benefit is when it decides it doesn't like something and randomly pulls fuel hard it references this table. disabling it makes it not do that.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Its such a pain in the as when trying to tune when today its 31* and tomorrow its going to be 54*......
Yep.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
didnt gmtech keep this stock because he said it worked better?Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
2008 Sky RL
Yes, as I recall it being stock aids in cyl cooling at part throttle & coasting. Been a few years since I read it though.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
you guys can check this for general E Fuel information. Most of whats mentioned was learned from here. if anything new comes up please share with everyone.
Keep in mind i made this video to help everyone starting an E blend tune get their vehicle started and close the gap from starter to fine tuning faster.
*Depending on your gas stations fuel quality and actual blend percentage at time of fueling, everyone may or may not experience some things described in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJcNGJgEgyg
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 04-05-2013 at 04:54 PM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Can I bring this back from the dead? I feel like E85 might not be a waste of time. I have been running it for a week now (may be E70, can't find my tester), but I have successfully tuned it pretty decently...
I ran out of fueling at around 75% in the old days at 24 psi boost. 60% E (2:1) all day long no issues but no real advantage over E47 in performance on my old LNF. If you drop the boost some you can do E85. Inj window misfire will be the culprit when you exceed the fuel system. I'm sure COB, Bill & GMT can help better than I, probably mucho improvement in the last 3 years on technique.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
MikeM and CCSOB should be able to. I haven't played with it because a) it's illegal in SCCA and b) I'm too lazy to constantly monitor ethanol levels in fuels here in Cali.
I really like the charge pipe 5th injector talk, but I can't contribute more to either. Just like ATS tuning, I have opinions only. Watch for pooling of fuel.
There is a successful e85 LNF thread out there. But, from what I've read you run out of fueling on stock injectors + cold start issues.
Hi Tom!!! How's the Bee doing? I'm at 650whp/609wtq now with my LSA Sky on pump gas and stock injectors. The gas tank is WAAAAAYYY too small to run any Ethanol mix! Nice to see you're still keeping an eye on these young'ns here.
Matt, save yourself a bunch of headache and just use E47. When the tank is empty just put 6 gallons of premium and 6 gallons of E85 in it. Full E85 in an LNF actually makes LESS power than E47. You get into injection window misfires and fuel pressure issues. On E47 you can run up to 26 degrees ign timing, there's really no more power going higher anyway. Many studies have shown the knock reduction from Ethanol drops off after as low as 30-40% anyway.
On the 5th injector issue... There's only one guy that's come up with a system that works. (hmmmm, who could that be?) ZZP's setup is garbage. Stupidest idea I've ever seen to inject ANYTHING into a tiny little bowl that then has to run through a passage to get into the intake manifold. Whatever atomizing the injector did to the fuel is lost as the fuel gathers in that bowl and turns back into liquid fuel. They don't care though, and their customer base is too stupid to know any better either. Again, if you're gonna try a 5th injector, save yourself a bunch of trouble and just copy my design. A bunch of guys already have and I've yet to see a problem with any of them out there. It's a good design, very similar to the old Throttle Body Injection where one or two injectors sprayed into the manifold above the throttle plate. Sure it wasn't as good as Port Injection, but it worked. What my design does is sprays the fuel directly over the throttle plate. There's no way you could possibly get any pooling or uneven fueling to any of the cylinders. As far as what to run through it, I took my feed right off the low side fuel pressure test port. You never have to worry about filling a tank, and the low side stock pump is plenty good for ~500whp if you bump the pressure up. I'm not a fan of water/meth injection, but yeah you could run that through a 5th injector. I personally would rather run E47 out of the regular gas tank, or E85 if you want to setup a separate tank and pump.
FWIW, ~500whp is a reasonable goal on an LNF Kappa. Anything past that and it gets a LOT more difficult. There are dozens of Kappas running around out there at 450-500whp pretty reliably. As long as your goals are below that, it's all been done and documented by others so just do the same and you'll be fine. If you want more power than that, get ready to spend some time and money!
Here's some pics of what my 5th injector setup looked like. It's still alive and working fine on a gal's EFR Sky in Texas.
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/IMG_2404.jpg
I was waiting for Yoda to speak.
Btw, GMTech, really like reading your LSA info. Hopefully I'll be playing with TTV6 soon.
Thanks John and Tom and Bill for the input, glad to see the mentors stepping back in. I agree, I am basically out of fuel on the stock system on full E85, but I am getting close to getting the fuel pressure right. I noticed the car moved more MAF #'s when I was running the pump E30 they had in Nebraska, so I think it's hurting performance now. To be honest, I hate the idea of having to mix it, I am simply too lazy.
I like your design, I was contemplating putting the fifth injector further upstream in the charge pipe to use the latent heat of the ethanol (wrote a new thread about it). Big long explanation about the theory there. But I was thinking I could aim the injector at the throttle blade. If I did this, it would only be on at 90% TPS or more, of course, so it wouldn't hit the throttle blade, and I think it would atomize a little better. Your design, John, looks really well thought out and all.
My goals for the car are to have fun and learn. I don't want to shatter records, don't want to wow the boxers off boys at a dyno day, nothing like that. I honestly want to just have fun and build cool stuff. I would be happy maxing out the stock turbo for now, then maybe up to 500whp on an EFR, but that's where things get complex and expensive and I don't have the desire to do that (hence why I sold my 1200whp Mustang). I am much more focused on making a killer midrange that I can use on the Auto-X course and having a well set up suspension and aero than I am making insane numbers.
One question I had on the 5th injector, how do I use a meth controller? Would the solenoid out be the one that would go to the injector? I am eying the AEM controller (pn 30-3305). Can read a handful of different inputs, though I wish it meshed them all together instead of forcing me to use only one.
I need a tune for E90 with 5th injector. ZZP Fueling cam and Opel injectors. Im buying E100 and mixing my own
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