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Thread: EQ <> VE Version 4

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    You can run the 2.5 bar OS with a stock MAP sensor...just set the MAP calibration the same as it is in the stock OS, then set your VE table KPA axis to whatever resolution you want for that MAP sensor range.
    True, but you wont be able to accurately read above 1 Bar anyway...so why do this? You'll be shooting in the dark as soon as you get into boost because you will max the stock MAP out.

    Can it be done? Sure, absolutely nothing stopping you. Is it a good idea if you're boosted? No.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22 View Post
    True, but you wont be able to accurately read above 1 Bar anyway...so why do this? You'll be shooting in the dark as soon as you get into boost because you will max the stock MAP out.

    Can it be done? Sure, absolutely nothing stopping you. Is it a good idea if you're boosted? No.
    I think his response was to someone running an NA set-up that was wanting a conventional VE table to calibrate, which the 2.5 Bar custom OS has. He was telling him he didn't need a 2.5 bar MAP to use the OS for an NA set-up.
    Jaime

  3. #83
    Advanced Tuner BigDaddyCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    You can run the 2.5 bar OS with a stock MAP sensor...just set the MAP calibration the same as it is in the stock OS, then set your VE table KPA axis to whatever resolution you want for that MAP sensor range.
    True.... cool. Thanks, to me this seems like it's going to be better for me then the mixed maf/ve standard system with my ramjet intake
    2017 Toyota Kluger - 10.1" Android Custom Head Unit, Rockford Fosgate Speakers, 85kg Roof Racks. Prev: 2009 Cammed VE SS Sedan, DOD Delete, 210/218 550', RAMJet OTR, HiFlowCats, IQ System, Amp/Speakers.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElecTech View Post
    I think his response was to someone running an NA set-up that was wanting a conventional VE table to calibrate, which the 2.5 Bar custom OS has. He was telling him he didn't need a 2.5 bar MAP to use the OS for an NA set-up.
    Ah, keep forgetting you have to use a COS to get a normal VE table for the Gen IVs.

    So yes, if you use the COS but only want to run N/A, just use the stock MAP and you'll be fine.
    ~Erik~
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  5. #85
    Advanced Tuner BigDaddyCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    You can run the 2.5 bar OS with a stock MAP sensor...just set the MAP calibration the same as it is in the stock OS, then set your VE table KPA axis to whatever resolution you want for that MAP sensor range.
    CustomOS for the win...

    Spent a few days with it, heaps better ........ Definitely recommend anyone doing VE go this route suggested, saves so much time.

    Cheers Mike
    2017 Toyota Kluger - 10.1" Android Custom Head Unit, Rockford Fosgate Speakers, 85kg Roof Racks. Prev: 2009 Cammed VE SS Sedan, DOD Delete, 210/218 550', RAMJet OTR, HiFlowCats, IQ System, Amp/Speakers.

  6. #86
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    Ok,I know I can be dense at times but I swear I've looked all over this thread and cannot find a download link for the new program.

    Bluecat: Thank you, your work is much appreciated.

  7. #87
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    Post #1 click on version 4.1.3 . Have fun.

  8. #88
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    Thanks, for the assist.

  9. #89
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    I have looked and clicked but getting stuck on map2 can't seem to find that one or the rest after that running e38 with 2.5 os...from what I see that under the tab speed density but mine doestn have that tab
    Last edited by Guero68; 05-04-2013 at 08:51 AM.

  10. #90
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    I deleted my original post cause I thought I found the problem but I am still seeing issues when copying the tables from my tune. I can get 3-4 tables in and then VCM Editor crashes.

    Anyone else experience this? VCM is 2.24 and my .NET framework appears to be up to date.

    error.png

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    open each table as it askes for it, click the decimal resolution to max, press the copy button in hpt at the top of each table. On my pc if I right click to copy with version 4 open it crashes hpt. Works very well, easiar to manipulate data.
    Just tried this method instead of the "right click" copy method and it worked flawless. No more crashes.


    Thanks, that was driving me crazy!

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak2007r6 View Post
    Just tried this method instead of the "right click" copy method and it worked flawless. No more crashes.


    Thanks, that was driving me crazy!
    I have the same issue, haven't tried your method yet.
    2018 Camaro SS, Maggie 2650, 103 TB, Big Gulp, E85

  13. #93
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    I guess this isn't compatible with the VVT DOHC 3.7L inline 5?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    open each table as it askes for it, click the decimal resolution to max, press the copy button in hpt at the top of each table. On my pc if I right click to copy with version 4 open it crashes hpt. Works very well, easiar to manipulate data.
    This was a good work around for me as well. Thanks!!

  15. #95
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    the right click thign works for me..but i just cant seem to find all the correct tables to click...Do you have to populate every table such as MAP^2 and such cause that the one thats getting me stuck

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post


    Last Updated: 3/5/13: Version 4.1.3

    Let's start with the big changes. For the most part there are Four.

    1. Addition of generating VVT equation data. Usage is simple. Instead of working with one VE table, this mode requires two. One for the cam @ position 0, another for the cam at some other position that you can choose. Typically the most the cam gets retarded at high rpm is a good place to start. Id set the cam tables uniformly to that number and build a ve table just like normal for that amount of retard. Just be aware of your engines mechanical limitations. Now this is over simplified. Proper implementation of this would actually require many VE tables, perhaps one for every 5 degrees from 0 to the max the cam can move. This is actually the reason GM went to the equation format because ve tables become impractical, especially when two independently movable cams come into play. I really didn't find much use for this after I developed it. I've never had any luck with aftermarket VVT cams. Not that I don't think there is merit in them, but the people who were developing them back when we tried them in a few cars back in 09 didn't know what they were doing. Things might have changed since then, but they put such a bad taste in my mouth I've never looked back. As GM comes up with more dual cam VVT applications, I don't care to add the exhaust equations. That would require a minimum of four tables to use. I don't even care to add the ability to do multiple tables at different cam locations, but my development of these features has stopped until the need for them develops. If nothing else its fun to take the factory VVT calibrations and watch the table change as you retard the cam, lol.

    2. No more hooks. I know there will be some tongue lashings here, but I went a different direction on getting the data in and out of the tuning softwares. Let me sum this up. I'm not a windows apps programmer, I'm an old school 8086 machine language kind of programmer. I can work in visual basic based stuff, but that doesn't require much behind the scene's knowledge of windows inner workings. I don't know how to access windows living in an other program. This is where Ktoonez came in last time, and without saying a lot that doesn't need to be said, that won't happen again. So my solution is an automated copy / paste routine that lets you get the data back and forth in a fairly painless manner. Instead of having to open all the windows and make sure the graphs were turned off... ect. You just right-click and copy or paste the table. I don't mind it, it only takes a few clicks and a few seconds to do, but I never used the other program (3-3.5) to get used to them either. So bear with me on the change, its the only way I know to do it.

    3. DotNet and a new front end. My previous versions were old school cir-cum 1998 VB6 goodness... And I will say, VB.NET has a certain power to it that I like, but its an erratic, buggy, flawed piece of crap compared to VB6. Again I won't go into details. But now its (more) modernized and hopefully will work in Windows 7 and 8 environments. The good news is you guys finally get to the use the front end and editing power that I use everyday. The HP Tuners environment is best in class and between it and their scanner, is the reason they are the best software out there hands down. But I've been at this stuff for a long time. Before I ever knew about HP Tuners, I already had a toolbox of certain things that I got used to. The data control and views in HPT is one of the best, but it has always lacked certain features that I need. For the most part my grid control functions the same except for where functionality differences force them to be. Also there are a few differences that stem from what I consider HPT specific features that I've not seen anywhere else and feel would be unethical to implement in my software. Simple stuff like thier color scheme, but more importantly things like the undo having a time based save process that ignores rapid hits of a button and treats it as one undo. Simply brilliant and functional, but something I've never seen anywhere else and I consider it their intellectual property. Anyway, here are some of the front end features that often have me pasting data out of HPT to edit and bring back in even on GEN III stuff....

    Multi-select - Only being able to have one single rectangle sized selection stinks. The magic of the control key to select or deselect individual cells is a must in my book. It does change certain things that function different from HPT. Areas selected for interpolation in HPT use the edge of what selected as the starting points, mine uses the cells outside the selection. Think about multi-select and you'll understand why. Ever wanted to smooth an area but not change certain parts like a tricky dip that needs to be there or the highest number at peak torque... Just unselect those cells.

    Extrapolate - The long lost brother of interpolate. While interpolation just draws straight lines between points, Extrapolate uses all the data surrounding the selected cells to build the area from scratch. Awesome for building parts of the map you have no data for, or even a map that's modded so much that its looking haggard and ununiform in parts. Due to the limitations of Equation based fuel mapping, you have to have good smooth VE tables that make sence. This tool will save tons of manual 'human eye' work. It needs certain conditions to work right. But try it anywhere you'd normally use interpolate as a start for how it works.

    Transpose - Ever had a table in one place or different style tune you wanted to use that the axis's are swapped. Enough said.

    Paste Interpolation - HPT picked up on a lovely feature I've seen elsewhere, but not in automotive tuning softwares. They tickled us with "Copy w/ Labels" and "Paste Table", but it only used row and columns that are exact matches. You can paste a table into another thats delinted different but you get gaps. Paste interpolate does just what the name says.

    Graph Point of View Movement - Ever zoomed in on a graph in HPT but not be able to see where you want? Right and left no long controls zoom, it pans. The scroll wheel zooms.

    Null Values - Sometimes you need "nothing" as opposed to "zero". They omit this ability because it creates problems in data handling. But the power is great while your editing. From not graphing anything in a graph when null, to copy and pasting selections and having holes in the middle. Hand in hand with multi-select. Again countless possibilities for the seasoned data handler (read tuner).

    4. Data formatting - The simple solution to the data getting "changed" slightly before was to limit it to six digits to the right of the decimal. Even though that kept HPT from truncating precious digits from the RPM^2 data, the resolution of the data when placed back in the tune still caused it to change. I've came up with a scheme that keeps the data almost completely intact. I've noticed slight anomalies, but its 1000000 times better that it was. You can now paste into HPT, then read it back out and get the same results. I'll spare you the details, but HPT pastes out one more digit than it shows. So that gives us seven digits to the right. The floating point of the ecm appears to be 9 digits incremented by 61 (don't ask). So the smallest step for a three digit number is 000.000061 or 00.0000061 for a two digit number. Anyway the smallest value you can get into and out of HPT with the 7 digit limit is 0.00000061. But that dosen't mean I can send 0.000001 and get it back. I know even though that's how HPT shows it, due to the resolution limit of the floating point in the ecm, it becomes 0.00000122 internally. Slight differences make a big deal with the squared constants. Knowing what happens to the data when it leaves, allows me to finally have some control over it.


    Now on to one of the most requested features. There is no help file or "how to" for this program.... There are tooltips that elaborate on what a function is or what it does. If you don't know why you need this program or understand intuitly how to use it, you don't have any business fooling with it. It simply turns equational VE data into tablized VE data and visa versa. It won't tune a car for you. It won't help you tune your 99 silverado, lol. The closest it comes to that is the fact that I've generously included a large portion of my stock longblock generic starting VE maps to help utilize the program and help aspiring self-tuners get a foothold in the world. I know whole heartily they will be miss-used by hacks and people who buy software like HP Tuners and just to steal a tune and claim they are a tuner. (I seen a tune file request on my way in to post this, lol). But I hope the good out ways the bad in that case.

    That's about it. The new features created an issue on the data format of the VE and EQ files. I to the best of my knowledge kept it so that any files created in V2-up should be forward compatible and able to be read by the new program. I still have a few features to add to the editor end that exist in my standalone edit based on my old front end you guys never got to see. Pasting of labels to actually change the axis delimitation (quick way to add a new VE format) and Clipboard axis scaling (killer for scaling entire table in FI tunes) to name a few. I'll keep updating if you guys keep telling me whats wrong with it.


    Last Updated: 3/5/13: Version 4.1.3


    Can someone point me where i can download the latest version?

  17. #97
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    The last bit of text "Version 4.1.3" in the post you quoted is a hyperlink. That's the latest version download link!
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  18. #98
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tool... back on the steep part of the learning curve.
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  19. #99
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    What should I do for a base table with boost in the equation? The stock L76 equations don't really create a nice looking table when it is brought out past 105kPa using this tool.
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  20. #100
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    I've got my first e38 vehicle with a cam to tune and have some questions. I think I've got a grasp on what needs to be done to tune using this software, and I've got the hang of copy/pasting tables correctly. The question I have, is the VE table does not look right at all. I've imported data using both hp tuners and TunerCAT OBD2 and the table shows up the same. see attached screen shot.

    ATTACHMENT HERE: ve eq screenshot.jpg


    Another issue, this might be related to TunerCAT is when I imported one of the tables, it pasted into TC as 6.42 E-06. This of course meaning decimal had to be moved to left 6 places..I don't think TC supports that many decimals. I pasted into excel, expanded number of decimals, so it read correctly, then pasted back in tc. It rounded to .00001

    anyways, main issue is why my ve doesnt look right. application is a 2007 5.3L Truck calibration from an E38. Stock calibration.
    Last edited by busta9876; 07-17-2013 at 02:45 PM.