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Thread: EQ <> VE Version 4

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    EQ <> VE Version 4



    Last Updated: 5/12/14: Version 4.2.2

    Let's start with the big changes. For the most part there are Four.

    1. Addition of generating VVT equation data. Usage is simple. Instead of working with one VE table, this mode requires two. One for the cam @ position 0, another for the cam at some other position that you can choose. Typically the most the cam gets retarded at high rpm is a good place to start. Id set the cam tables uniformly to that number and build a ve table just like normal for that amount of retard. Just be aware of your engines mechanical limitations. Now this is over simplified. Proper implementation of this would actually require many VE tables, perhaps one for every 5 degrees from 0 to the max the cam can move. This is actually the reason GM went to the equation format because ve tables become impractical, especially when two independently movable cams come into play. I really didn't find much use for this after I developed it. I've never had any luck with aftermarket VVT cams. Not that I don't think there is merit in them, but the people who were developing them back when we tried them in a few cars back in 09 didn't know what they were doing. Things might have changed since then, but they put such a bad taste in my mouth I've never looked back. As GM comes up with more dual cam VVT applications, I don't care to add the exhaust equations. That would require a minimum of four tables to use. I don't even care to add the ability to do multiple tables at different cam locations, but my development of these features has stopped until the need for them develops. If nothing else its fun to take the factory VVT calibrations and watch the table change as you retard the cam, lol.

    2. No more hooks. I know there will be some tongue lashings here, but I went a different direction on getting the data in and out of the tuning softwares. Let me sum this up. I'm not a windows apps programmer, I'm an old school 8086 machine language kind of programmer. I can work in visual basic based stuff, but that doesn't require much behind the scene's knowledge of windows inner workings. I don't know how to access windows living in an other program. This is where Ktoonez came in last time, and without saying a lot that doesn't need to be said, that won't happen again. So my solution is an automated copy / paste routine that lets you get the data back and forth in a fairly painless manner. Instead of having to open all the windows and make sure the graphs were turned off... ect. You just right-click and copy or paste the table. I don't mind it, it only takes a few clicks and a few seconds to do, but I never used the other program (3-3.5) to get used to them either. So bear with me on the change, its the only way I know to do it.

    3. DotNet and a new front end. My previous versions were old school cir-cum 1998 VB6 goodness... And I will say, VB.NET has a certain power to it that I like, but its an erratic, buggy, flawed piece of crap compared to VB6. Again I won't go into details. But now its (more) modernized and hopefully will work in Windows 7 and 8 environments. The good news is you guys finally get to the use the front end and editing power that I use everyday. The HP Tuners environment is best in class and between it and their scanner, is the reason they are the best software out there hands down. But I've been at this stuff for a long time. Before I ever knew about HP Tuners, I already had a toolbox of certain things that I got used to. The data control and views in HPT is one of the best, but it has always lacked certain features that I need. For the most part my grid control functions the same except for where functionality differences force them to be. Also there are a few differences that stem from what I consider HPT specific features that I've not seen anywhere else and feel would be unethical to implement in my software. Simple stuff like thier color scheme, but more importantly things like the undo having a time based save process that ignores rapid hits of a button and treats it as one undo. Simply brilliant and functional, but something I've never seen anywhere else and I consider it their intellectual property. Anyway, here are some of the front end features that often have me pasting data out of HPT to edit and bring back in even on GEN III stuff....

    Multi-select - Only being able to have one single rectangle sized selection stinks. The magic of the control key to select or deselect individual cells is a must in my book. It does change certain things that function different from HPT. Areas selected for interpolation in HPT use the edge of what selected as the starting points, mine uses the cells outside the selection. Think about multi-select and you'll understand why. Ever wanted to smooth an area but not change certain parts like a tricky dip that needs to be there or the highest number at peak torque... Just unselect those cells.

    Extrapolate - The long lost brother of interpolate. While interpolation just draws straight lines between points, Extrapolate uses all the data surrounding the selected cells to build the area from scratch. Awesome for building parts of the map you have no data for, or even a map that's modded so much that its looking haggard and ununiform in parts. Due to the limitations of Equation based fuel mapping, you have to have good smooth VE tables that make sence. This tool will save tons of manual 'human eye' work. It needs certain conditions to work right. But try it anywhere you'd normally use interpolate as a start for how it works.

    Transpose - Ever had a table in one place or different style tune you wanted to use that the axis's are swapped. Enough said.

    Paste Interpolation - HPT picked up on a lovely feature I've seen elsewhere, but not in automotive tuning softwares. They tickled us with "Copy w/ Labels" and "Paste Table", but it only used row and columns that are exact matches. You can paste a table into another thats delinted different but you get gaps. Paste interpolate does just what the name says.

    Graph Point of View Movement - Ever zoomed in on a graph in HPT but not be able to see where you want? Right and left no long controls zoom, it pans. The scroll wheel zooms.

    Null Values - Sometimes you need "nothing" as opposed to "zero". They omit this ability because it creates problems in data handling. But the power is great while your editing. From not graphing anything in a graph when null, to copy and pasting selections and having holes in the middle. Hand in hand with multi-select. Again countless possibilities for the seasoned data handler (read tuner).

    4. Data formatting - The simple solution to the data getting "changed" slightly before was to limit it to six digits to the right of the decimal. Even though that kept HPT from truncating precious digits from the RPM^2 data, the resolution of the data when placed back in the tune still caused it to change. I've came up with a scheme that keeps the data almost completely intact. I've noticed slight anomalies, but its 1000000 times better that it was. You can now paste into HPT, then read it back out and get the same results. I'll spare you the details, but HPT pastes out one more digit than it shows. So that gives us seven digits to the right. The floating point of the ecm appears to be 9 digits incremented by 61 (don't ask). So the smallest step for a three digit number is 000.000061 or 00.0000061 for a two digit number. Anyway the smallest value you can get into and out of HPT with the 7 digit limit is 0.00000061. But that dosen't mean I can send 0.000001 and get it back. I know even though that's how HPT shows it, due to the resolution limit of the floating point in the ecm, it becomes 0.00000122 internally. Slight differences make a big deal with the squared constants. Knowing what happens to the data when it leaves, allows me to finally have some control over it.


    Now on to one of the most requested features. There is no help file or "how to" for this program.... There are tooltips that elaborate on what a function is or what it does. If you don't know why you need this program or understand intuitly how to use it, you don't have any business fooling with it. It simply turns equational VE data into tablized VE data and visa versa. It won't tune a car for you. It won't help you tune your 99 silverado, lol. The closest it comes to that is the fact that I've generously included a large portion of my stock longblock generic starting VE maps to help utilize the program and help aspiring self-tuners get a foothold in the world. I know whole heartily they will be miss-used by hacks and people who buy software like HP Tuners and just to steal a tune and claim they are a tuner. (I seen a tune file request on my way in to post this, lol). But I hope the good out ways the bad in that case.

    That's about it. The new features created an issue on the data format of the VE and EQ files. I to the best of my knowledge kept it so that any files created in V2-up should be forward compatible and able to be read by the new program. I still have a few features to add to the editor end that exist in my standalone edit based on my old front end you guys never got to see. Pasting of labels to actually change the axis delimitation (quick way to add a new VE format) and Clipboard axis scaling (killer for scaling entire table in FI tunes) to name a few. I'll keep updating if you guys keep telling me whats wrong with it.

    Link is Version number below for browsers that do not show the underline.

    Last Updated: 5/12/14: Version 4.2.2
    Last edited by Bluecat; 05-12-2014 at 07:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner Montecarlodrag's Avatar
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    Cool, lets try it.

    Thanks for the updates

    EDIT: The zip file seems to be empty
    9 sec Montecarlo SS

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner c.u's Avatar
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    Thank you for the update and your time to do this. And tweaking is bad.lol

  4. #4

    Eq 4

    Got it Thanks for the update can't wait to use it.
    Last edited by hhoelle; 03-03-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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  5. #5
    im having a hell of a time importing tables it just flashes red and says the same thing also i can up load the .zip do my google docs and make it available for download if you need

  6. #6
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    open each table as it askes for it, click the decimal resolution to max, press the copy button in hpt at the top of each table. On my pc if I right click to copy with version 4 open it crashes hpt. Works very well, easiar to manipulate data.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    open each table as it askes for it, click the decimal resolution to max, press the copy button in hpt at the top of each table. On my pc if I right click to copy with version 4 open it crashes hpt. Works very well, easiar to manipulate data.
    i followed the on-screen instructions i increased to max precision, tried both copy in hp tuners and right click same result flashes red

  8. #8
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    Works great for me.
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  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    I haven't had a new beta in a while, they may have changed some stuff again. The addition of commas a few years back broke the program majorly.

    I may have just not been clear enough. Don't open the table, right click on the button that would normally open the table and you should get a "Copy Table" option. It basically works the same as selecting the whole table when open and clicking "Copy with Labels".

    Copying the whole table gives extra data so that it assures its getting the right data (hence the red blinking) and lets its pick out the correct data (normal, dod, ect...) internally in the program. It's also much faster than opening and copy / pasting which sucks. I was trying to make the transition away from the window hooks less painful.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    Also I seemed to notice a trend of everyone going max precision/single cell by their comments. The heal of the EQ is changing zone boundaries. So for the sake of transition the edge of the zone if a fair amount more important than matching a cell in the center. Just think about it before you make changes to the sliders. Also as the generation routine has got better, its got much faster and accurate over time. But the nature of the beast is that you can work 10x harder and take 10x longer and not always get better results. The EQ has limits to what it can do. To be honest, full fast is almost as good and full precision and usually takes less than a second. The only reason I set the default so close to Precise is that its got so damn fast it doesn't matter, lol.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    open each table as it askes for it, click the decimal resolution to max, press the copy button in hpt at the top of each table. On my pc if I right click to copy with version 4 open it crashes hpt. Works very well, easiar to manipulate data.
    Wow, not understanding that one. My program is 100% self contained. The only thing they are sharing on the import/export is the clipboard. No different than pasting into Excel. Not sure why HPT would crash if my program is running at the same time. .net

  12. #12
    still no dice but found out why trying to do equations the first one for zone rpm i notice your program ha the 0-1 1-2 2-3 3-4 i only have 0-1 1-2 2-3 available to copy so i guess i can never generat equations for the LS4/E40 platform

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    That's weird. I've not had that problem. One of the example files included in my program is factory data for a LS4 I read strait out of stock tune.

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    You shouldn't need to use this for a E40...

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  15. #15
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    I have 1 question...where's the donation link? You've put a lot of time into this program for yourself, and then graciously given it to us (many people probably won't ever even say thank you)...can't those of us who would like to thank you somehow repay you for your time?
    Last edited by MikeOD; 03-04-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  16. #16
    EDIT +1 For a donation link ^^^^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post
    That's weird. I've not had that problem. One of the example files included in my program is factory data for a LS4 I read strait out of stock tune.
    I dont mean to sound like a pain in the ass and im appreciative of your work bluecat i dont mean to come bitching on the thread. i wanted that part to be known....anyways i saw the LS4 example however im pretty sure yours is from the E67/LS4 platform. LS4's used both E40 and E67 controllers. here is mine just for your refrence




    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    You shouldn't need to use this for a E40...
    not to threadjack but why do you say that?

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    Hes says that because you have already have a VE table and cant use this program... This is only for the E67/E38 stuff that dosent have a VE table.

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    My paypal is my email, which is in the title bar of the program. I obviously wont stop anyone from sending anything, but I don't expect it. Hell there have been post after post of people talking about donating to the cause. Previous programs I've wrote I even kindly asked for a little bump from professional people (shop and commercial tuners) that use my software and make money from it. But after all these years not one single person has ever actually sent me a dime, lol. If they did they sent it to Ktoonsez...

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post
    My paypal is my email, which is in the title bar of the program. I obviously wont stop anyone from sending anything, but I don't expect it. Hell there have been post after post of people talking about donating to the cause. Previous programs I've wrote I even kindly asked for a little bump from professional people (shop and commercial tuners) that use my software and make money from it. But after all these years not one single person has ever actually sent me a dime, lol. If they did they sent it to Ktoonsez...
    Just sent you $100.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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  20. #20
    Senior Tuner eficalibrator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post
    My paypal is my email, which is in the title bar of the program. I obviously wont stop anyone from sending anything, but I don't expect it. Hell there have been post after post of people talking about donating to the cause. Previous programs I've wrote I even kindly asked for a little bump from professional people (shop and commercial tuners) that use my software and make money from it. But after all these years not one single person has ever actually sent me a dime, lol. If they did they sent it to Ktoonsez...
    Why did you never answer my emails when I was asking about including your tools in my professional training DVDs? I was prepared to pay you for the rights to include it in my instruction, but I got no response whatsoever. As a result, I was forced to leave it out and I still get people asking me for training on HPTuners/Bluecat integration and calibration.

    I applaud your efforts. This program is a big piece of what is absolutely required in order to properly calibrate the newer GM controllers/engines. I only wish that Ken/Keith/Chris realize just how much you bailed them out by making this. Without it, their software's usefulness on new ECUs drops remarkably.