what is this trans tqmgmt?

[SICK WS 6]

I'm lost here.
In the screen shot below you can see launch, a little bit of wheel spin, vehicle speed hits my 1-2 shift rpm and 25mph, the trans commands 2nd gear, and then at 5600rpm trans slip goes through the roof (which it does due to the commanded shift and you can see the same when the 2-3 is commanded below) and then some sort of trans torque management kicks in and pulls all timing. Engine rpm then drops, trans slip comes down, timing goes back up, and the car accelerates again. By then, the pass is a dud.
This started when I put the 3600 Yank in last fall, and I just can't figure this out.
Any ideas what torque management this is that's pulling this timing? Or if it might be something else?

[edcmat-l1]

Spark/Advance/Spark minimum Tq Mgt.

[SICK WS 6]

Yeah, I hear ya. That's too global for my taste.
I'd rather figure out exactly what this is and why the fact that the shift being commanded by mph is causing the trans to "see slip" until the shift event actually completes and why timing gets pulled once the slip gets so high.
If my thinking is right, there's got to be something that the ecm references to determine how much slip is too much. And we should be able to manipulate that value.

[edcmat-l1]

Yeah, I hear ya. That's too global for my taste.
I'd rather figure out exactly what this is and why the fact that the shift being commanded by mph is causing the trans to "see slip" until the shift event actually completes and why timing gets pulled once the slip gets so high.
If my thinking is right, there's got to be something that the ecm references to determine how much slip is too much. And we should be able to manipulate that value.

The timing is going to be pulled every time it shifts. It's not being pulled because the slip is too high, it's going to pull that much regardless. Want less slip, tune the trans. Increase pressure, decrease shift time.

[SICK WS 6]

Sorry Ed, didn't explain myself well enough. Trans is tuned, shifts awesome.
Same screenshot again, but with some added visuals to help show what I'm talking about.

I've left the cursor in HPT at the point where the tcm requests the shift into 2nd gear. What I've circled in yellow is the trans slip that gets calculated from when the shift request is made (based on mph in the tune) to the time that the shift actually starts. This isn't real slip...just something that gets calculated from the point of commanded shift to start of actual shift event.

What I've circled in red is the timing pull at the actual shift. This is fine since I'm only pulling 70% tm at wot shifts. Not a problem here.

The problem is what's circled in green. At the HPT cursor, the command is made to shift to 2nd. Trans slip goes up like is should, but then shoots up (circled in white) past 3000rpm where some kind of trans tqmgmt kicks in and pulls timing until the slip gets back under control and down to 2000rpm or so. Then the timing gets put back in, the car accelerates again and the actual 1-2 shift event occurs. You can see it really well since the red line for advance matches up perfectly with the blue line below it for trans slip. Blue goes up, red comes down. Blue goes down, red goes back up.
So the question is, what trans tqmgmt is kicking in here and pulling spark when slip shoots up like this? It kicks off right before the shift event that's circled in red starts, so there's something here that's trying to control slip.

[DSteck]

Log the Torque Management Type. It should give you an idea of where to look.

[SICK WS 6]

It did. And I still can't find what it might be.

[DSteck]

Try this.

[SICK WS 6]

Will do, but I won't be able to do that until my next trip to the track. The car doesn't have a prayer at hooking on the street in 1st.
What are you thinking is causing the timing pull Dave?

[DSteck]

Dunno, but I wouldn't in a million years run the settings you have. =D

[SICK WS 6]

Interesting.

[edcmat-l1]

Dave, I wouldn't recommend he runs yours either. Out of common courtesy I'll leave it at that. If you want to discuss it via PM or email you know how to reach me.

[DSteck]

I run that same setup in a bunch of local cars, all of which have 10-30k miles with it and no hiccups.

[edcmat-l1]

I run that same setup in a bunch of local cars, all of which have 10-30k miles with it and no hiccups.

Replied to your email.

[DSteck]

Pretty sure now I made a typo when using the gear ratio.

[SICK WS 6]

1 more try here fellers. 2 more screen shots, but I've taken the data that isn't important out. Hopefully this will make it easier to see.

Here's a successful 1-2 shift when the car had the factory torque converter. The orange line shows commanded gear and in the white circle at the bottom you can see where it commands the shift into 2nd.
At that same time, the red circle shows that there is some kind of calculated trans slip that starts. That slip peaks right at the HPT cursor line at 6477rpm where the shift into 2nd actually initiates. A little bit of timing gets pulled via TM (blue circle) and we're into 2nd gear with a 6500ish rpm shift. Perfect.



Here's where it gets nasty.
White circle first. The car launches and fights for traction. There's a little bit of trans slip, and then the command to 2nd gets made (orange line) and trans slip raises just like it did in the screen shot above.
The red circle again shows the trans slip, but see how it shoots up and peaks and how timing gets pulled at that peak and how RPM comes down?
That's the TM that I'm talking about.
Once the trans slip is back under control, you can see the timing start to get put back in...green circle. Slip goes up, timing comes down. Slip goes down, timing goes back up.
Then right after that you can see the blue circle where the timing gets pulled via upshift torque management. There's two different distinct events here where timing gets pulled.
And the whole time, the car never gets above 5900rpm.
You can see the 2 to 3 shift to the right executes perfectly.
So what TM is pulling that timing???

[Frost]

That's your spark Tq mngmnt which is still stock in each version of your calibration posted here. You are right about two events pulling timing. You have the normal upshift tq mngmnt and then the slip that leads to eng tq mngmnt.

This large reduction comes from Engine>Advance>Spark Limiters> Spark Minimum - TqMgt and can additionally be pulled low by Engine>Advance>Spark Limiters> Spark Minimum

It's being pulled to help keep things under control.

[SICK WS 6]

I figured I'd bump this since the problem (hopefully) has worked itself out.
Trans fluid level was a tiny bit low, but topping it off made no change.
Adding to the Base Shift Pressure tables increased PCS1, but didn't affect the slip at all.
As ridiculous as this is, Trans Adapt Reset - Trans Fast Adapt Reset - Trans Adapt Preset.....and it seems the problem is gone. I found nothing change in any of the PCS values, but the slip is gone.
I never actually figured out what torque management was pulling that timing, but if the slip is gone then the problem is gone.

Next problem was I couldn't get a 1-2 shift no matter how low I dropped the MPH. Luckily, I found a thread where someone mentioned dropping the shift rpm to way below your shift point, and dropping it to 5000rpm did the trick. Shifts at 6500, 6500, 6400 like clockwork now. So much for the 6L only shifting based off of mph.

[ak2007r6]

That's your spark Tq mngmnt which is still stock in each version of your calibration posted here. You are right about two events pulling timing. You have the normal upshift tq mngmnt and then the slip that leads to eng tq mngmnt.

This large reduction comes from Engine>Advance>Spark Limiters> Spark Minimum - TqMgt and can additionally be pulled low by Engine>Advance>Spark Limiters> Spark Minimum

It's being pulled to help keep things under control.

I am having the same issue as the OP here and while logging see it is the Torque Mgt Advance that is pulling the timing during the shifts at WOT. I was looking at the two tables you have listed below and know adjusting them will affect how much timing is pulled during my shifts at WOT, I am just not sure how much I should adjust those.

Right now "Spark Minimum - TqMgt" is set to pull -20 for anything over 104 degrees ECT.

"Spark Minimum" is showing -25 for all the areas I would be WOT in.


What's a safe amount to raise those values? Guess I could just start slowly working up and seeing how it affects the shifts. Just was curious if you had a good base point to start with for me.

Appreciate your help.

[SICK WS 6]

My problem was not timing being pulled during shifts. That's a different issue and there are plenty of threads on here discussing the pro's and con's of pulling timing during a shift on these transmissions.