Injector Scaling Procedure

[sarg]

Eh, I kind of disagree there. So if a shop bought the dvds they are never allowed to use any of the information in them to tune a car? If they do tune a car and leave it unlocked and someone sees it is it then against the law for the customer who paid for the tune to discuss it? What about someone who uses that data and then uploads their tune to the repository...are they breaking the law as well?

[Jabbott]

Copy righted is copy righted so technically yes that would be against the law. It is not against the law for the shop to tune a car and use the data, they purchased the dvd. It would be a copy right infringement to copy the data and post it somewhere though. If someone where to copy the data and post it into a tune repository, it would still be illegal but also doesn't mean that someone did it on purpose either. What if a shop tuned your car car and you posted it on the repository and had no idea where the data came from. Honest mistake and I am sure Greg would not pursue that. However when you see someone advertising Calibrated Success injector data, click this link. That is illegal and they would lose in a court of law. Look I understand the circumstances, but right is right and wrong is wrong. If I spent the time putting this data together I would copy right it also and then defend it. My question would someone really want to risk what the possible outcome would be by giving it away. Put yourself in his shoes, would you give me your paycheck next week just so that I can have it for free? Don't ask him or anyone else who puts this amount of work into data to do the same thing. I you would like to send me your paycheck I can forward and address to you

[sarg]

So you have never discussed anything that you learned from his dvd in a public forum? What if they changed all the data by .01 so that copyright would no longer apply. I get what you are saying and agree to an extent, but discussing tuning IS what this board is for and I can almost guarantee that there are tunes in the repository that are a direct result of someone using his dvd (as I have) to help them tune a car and that wants to share their tune for the benefit of others.

[Jabbott]

So you have never discussed anything that you learned from his dvd in a public forum? What if they changed all the data by .01 so that copyright would no longer apply. I get what you are saying and agree to an extent, but discussing tuning IS what this board is for and I can almost guarantee that there are tunes in the repository that are a direct result of someone using his dvd (as I have) to help them tune a car and that wants to share their tune for the benefit of others.

I didn't say anything about discussing something. Talking about something does not break any copy right laws. Think of limewire, all the people that got arrested for downloading and uploading songs. It would not have been a copy right infringement if they were singing them.
There is no harm is discussing anything or what you learned from it. Personally I would really rather not learn from someone who just watched a video, kind of like staying at a Holiday Inn express moment. However talking about it and making a copy of it for someone is two totally different things.

[sarg]

You would be surprised the experience someone who watches or reads documents might have I have been tuning for around 15 years, but I am new to this platform and software. For me, grabbing a video and searching the forums helps. Ask me something about the previous turbo cars I have tuned and I could generally rattle it off from the top of my head. Like this tune scaling....not by any means new or proprietary to Greg. I have been doing that for 10 years to work around ecu limitations for some other cars. I am just not familiar yet with the ins and outs of the gm ecus.

[Trevtec]

Im just talking about the guy who said he swore in an oath of silence?? Everything in this forum is kinda vague. Im on alot of tuning forums, and Ive never really seen anything like this where most of the real knowledge is a secret. We already spend good money to buy the harware here, why do things have to be kept secret?

[Jabbott]

You would be surprised the experience someone who watches or reads documents might have I have been tuning for around 15 years, but I am new to this platform and software. For me, grabbing a video and searching the forums helps. Ask me something about the previous turbo cars I have tuned and I could generally rattle it off from the top of my head. Like this tune scaling....not by any means new or proprietary to Greg. I have been doing that for 10 years to work around ecu limitations for some other cars. I am just not familiar yet with the ins and outs of the gm ecus.

I am sorry, let me clear somthing up. There is a big difference between a person who is knowledgable with calibrating and understand the physics of what is going on with an engine and watching a DVD to clear some things up on a certain platform vs. someone watching video and all of a sudden is an expert in the field. I by no means call myself and expert,I spend countless hours testing and learning more. I don't think you can ever learn more, but you are not an expert unless you are familiar the ins and outs of a particular plateform and to be honest I don't think anyone on this forum is except maybe two if the other one frequents this forum. I am not trying to discredit anyone, but if you are not a OEM calibrator than you are not 100% in this platform. I am very privileged to get the information I have since it is so scarce to see it anywhere and I am learning something new everyday. Even stuff I thought I knew, I am learning this is even more complicated and the alogrithms are more complex than what I could have ever thought. That is why I find it funny when I see someone arguing with Greg who is an OE calibrator on theories or data. I am sure there are some other OE calibrators lurking so am not including you in this, just the other 98% of us.I wish I had all the answers on this, I have missed many hours of sleep researching and figuring this stuff out and I have a long ways to go.

[Jabbott]

Im just talking about the guy who said he swore in an oath of silence?? Everything in this forum is kinda vague. Im on alot of tuning forums, and Ive never really seen anything like this where most of the real knowledge is a secret. We already spend good money to buy the harware here, why do things have to be kept secret?

I didn't take any oath at his classes or watching his videos. I sell his videos and I don't think there is an oath in there. However there is a copy right law and that one can really cost you if you want to violate it.

[edcmat-l1]

Im just talking about the guy who said he swore in an oath of silence?? Everything in this forum is kinda vague. Im on alot of tuning forums, and Ive never really seen anything like this where most of the real knowledge is a secret. We already spend good money to buy the harware here, why do things have to be kept secret?

Comparitively speaking, the GM tuning world is wide open as far as info is concerned. You wanna see vague, try the Ford tuning world, or Euro tuning. Vague would be an understatement.

[sarg]

Euro is terrible!

[sarg]

I am sorry, let me clear somthing up. There is a big difference between a person who is knowledgable with calibrating and understand the physics of what is going on with an engine and watching a DVD to clear some things up on a certain platform vs. someone watching video and all of a sudden is an expert in the field. I by no means call myself and expert,I spend countless hours testing and learning more. I don't think you can ever learn more, but you are not an expert unless you are familiar the ins and outs of a particular plateform and to be honest I don't think anyone on this forum is except maybe two if the other one frequents this forum. I am not trying to discredit anyone, but if you are not a OEM calibrator than you are not 100% in this platform. I am very privileged to get the information I have since it is so scarce to see it anywhere and I am learning something new everyday. Even stuff I thought I knew, I am learning this is even more complicated and the alogrithms are more complex than what I could have ever thought. That is why I find it funny when I see someone arguing with Greg who is an OE calibrator on theories or data. I am sure there are some other OE calibrators lurking so am not including you in this, just the other 98% of us.I wish I had all the answers on this, I have missed many hours of sleep researching and figuring this stuff out and I have a long ways to go.

I would by no means call my expert, but I am doing my best to learn. I try to learn something new every day and weed through the BS that gets regurgitated on the internet. One guy has success with something and instantly everyone thinks it is the only way to do it. This tuning platform is MUCH different from the other ones I have experience with, but seems quite good for the most part other than my recent issues with my wife's CTS-V, lol. Just playing with her car and my friend's TBSS has helped out immensely and I hope to be ready to enter the LS forced induction world here shortly. I have a ton of experience with other turbo platforms, but I am a total newb when it comes to this software.

My main problem is, like you, when my brain gets on something I will sit and read and research until passing out before I give up on it, lol. Just the way my brain works I guess, but it has served me well in the past.

[mowton]

Just to clarify, if you look at my post, I put the word oath in parenthesis, not to be take literally, rather figurative. It is a legal issue, but to me its more an ethics issue. Greg took the time and money to develop the data, asked that it not be broadcasted across the internet, and I believe he is deserved of that.

I have used the data in many tunes and am sure that the people we have tuned, haven't gone out of their way to broadcast the data. The OP was looking for a discussion on tune scaling vs. Gregs data and its protection.

JMHO

Ed M

[Jabbott]

ethics issue

Actually that sums it up best.

[Trevtec]

it would just be nice to see a wiki, or straite info on how to do something and not trying to figure out what is right and what it bullshit. The only thing Ive seen worth a shit is maybe "how to setup your wideband".

How DO you scale your injectors. I dont see anything about it on this calibration. On my V6 truck you can input injectors size.

[DSteck]

The Ford format data is openly available from FRPP for any FRPP injector. Go download it, educate yourself on how the data gets used, educate yourself on how GM does it, and convert it. It's not as clean as taking the raw data and going straight to GM format, but it works. This is exactly what Greg did. The information needed to do this is openly available on the internet.

Before the "well just share it and tell us how to do it" waves hit... Let me just say that not everyone wants to share their hard work, effort, and research for free. You won't find Sony giving out wiring diagrams, parts lists, and ready-to-go code for people to build their own Playstation. It's the same thing here.





As far as "scaling" goes... If you're talking about scaling a tune to defeat an injector flow rate limit, go here:

http://www.injectordynamics.com/SteckScaleArticle.html

As far as entering new data for injectors, that's something you really just need to look up the data for. You can loosely make an assumption on flow rate if you know how much it flows at a certain pressure. If an injector flows 50 lb/hr at 43.5psi, and you want to know flow at 58psi, the equation is as follows:

Flow = old flow * (new pressure / old pressure) ^ 1/2

50 lb/hr @ 43.5psi is 57.74 lb/hr @ 58psi

[Trevtec]

Then what is point of this forum?

[DSteck]

Then what is point of this forum?

I'm going to guess you haven't spent a lot of time on it if you're seriously asking that question.

[Trevtec]

The whole reason I bought his HPtuners was because everyone in Las Vegas that tunes GMs has some kind of attitude and all love to lock ECMs so you have to go back to them for retunes. The stock ECM in my Camaro is in my trunk ready for the gun range. Good thing a replacement was $80 bucks on Ebay.

[Trevtec]

I'm going to guess you haven't spent a lot of time on it if you're seriously asking that question.

Even the good write ups that seem to make sense, a few posts down someone else is commenting on how its all wrong..... It makes things confusing.

[DSteck]

Everyone's an expert. I don't really have any advice on how to tell who is full of it and who has a clue.