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Thread: Vortech tuning on GM LS7

  1. #1
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    Vortech tuning on GM LS7

    Hi all,
    I am a french newbie interested by tunning the engine GM LS7 Supercharged with the Vortech kit 4GS218-020L.
    Vortech supplied with this kit the necessary to tune the ECM. I have some questions about this tuning:

    1 - MAF Calibration.
    • In the table "vs. Airflow. Freq. Low" the first cell contains the value 510. What is the reason?
    • In the table "vs. Airflow. Freq. High", between 6400 and 12000 Hz, the values ​​are slightly lower than the stock LS7 table. Is not it surprising?

    2 - Virtual VE Table.
    It remains the same as the stock LS7. Is this normal?

    3 - Main Spark Advance - High Octane.
    This table is not at all smooth. Between 0.28 and 0.52, it contains values ​​much lower than the stock LS7. In addition to this, there are peaks present in several areas. What is the explanation?


    4 - What should be tuned further in case of replacement of exhaust stock by long tube headers (Kooks) and Borla exhaust ?

    Thank you in advance

  2. #2
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    You will never receive a complete reply to your questions. I suggest you to start reading ls2 tuning guide then purchase the book of Greg Banish Advanced Engine Management Tuning so you will get the reply to a lot of answer that you might raise to yourself. People here are not so prone to help expecially european guys....this is the feedback i got through my posts.
    As per my understanding :

    1) Most probably the injector tables are different and the maf is tuned to match.
    2) It must be tuned with the proper software (you don't have the gmve) or you can use your car in maf only by "airflow-dynamic-high rpm set to 200rpm and reenable 100rpm" so you can avoid changing this table
    3) It is a starting table, it must be verified on street or dyno tuning. In case of some knocks you need to adjust these starting values
    4) You can start increasing maf f low to 5% and maf f high to 10% then you need a wideband to perfectly tune you maf curve to match 11.5afr commanded.
    Last edited by ingsteve; 11-19-2012 at 06:14 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    definitely no to little efforts done to that tune.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingsteve View Post
    You will never receive a complete reply to your questions. I suggest you to start reading ls2 tuning guide then purchase the book of Greg Banish Advanced Engine Management Tuning so you will get the reply to a lot of answer that you might raise to yourself. People here are not so prone to help expecially european guys....this is the feedback i got through my posts.
    As per my understanding :

    1) Most probably the injector tables are different and the maf is tuned to match.
    2) It must be tuned with the proper software (you don't have the gmve) or you can use your car in maf only by "airflow-dynamic-high rpm set to 200rpm and reenable 100rpm" so you can avoid changing this table
    3) It is a starting table, it must be verified on street or dyno tuning. In case of some knocks you need to adjust these starting values
    4) You can start increasing maf f low to 5% and maf f high to 10% then you need a wideband to perfectly tune you maf curve to match 11.5afr commanded.
    I have already read the Greg Banish book and also the Dan Maslic. It is for this reason that I am surprised by what I see in the file from Vortech but I hope they know more than me about it!
    For comparison of virtual VE tables I used "VE Equation <> VE table Generator - V3.5". I also checked individually all tables in "Engine / Airflow" (Main VE VE coefficients, etc. ..): there is no difference between LS7 Stock and Vortech values, ​​except for "airflow-dynamic-high rpm "which are:" Disable 4000 rpm / 3900 rpm Re-enable "which suggests that the VE table is not unimportant here.
    The table "Main Spark Advance" I'm talking about is not a starting table but that delivered with the Vortech kit. Like all others it is part of a package that the client I'm should not change.

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I wouldn't trust the "canned" tune that is given to you with the kit. Your best bet is to start with the stock file and tune from there.

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    The spark table i mean starting because you should start from there and fine tuning as per vortech kit else start from stock as dsteck said

  7. #7
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    You may be right, but before you try to do better than the folks at Vortech I would like to understand what they have done because they should not be completely incompetent. The best proof is that the car is running like an airplane (see dyno) and without incident for over 2 years. The problem that bothers me is that I do not know why!


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    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    You may be right, but before you try to do better than the folks at Vortech I would like to understand what they have done because they should not be completely incompetent. The best proof is that the car is running like an airplane (see dyno) and without incident for over 2 years. The problem that bothers me is that I do not know why!
    Well, dyno run at WOT doesn't prove anything at the part thottle efficiency. I bet this car is suffering fuel consumption as well as throttle response in the area between cruising and WOT. That's where there seems to be very low advance, yet no boost yet (didn't see the whole graph though).

    If i would be you, I'd put the timing back to stock in the non-boosted areas and see how the car responses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    MAF Calibration.
    In the table "vs. Airflow. Freq. Low" the first cell contains the value 510. What is the reason?
    I've no idea why. It does not make sense at all. I'd say it's not there intentionally.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    [*]In the table "vs. Airflow. Freq. High", between 6400 and 12000 Hz, the values ​​are slightly lower than the stock LS7 table. Is not it surprising?
    This is not surprising. It may also be related to MAF position in the piping around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    Virtual VE Table.
    It remains the same as the stock LS7. Is this normal?
    Since the engine is otherwise stock (isn't it?), stock VE should be adequate of being backup for MAF in transient situations (i.e. when suddenly going WOT). For boosted areas it has no additional value, since MAP values do not go over 105 kPa if I recall it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    What should be tuned further in case of replacement of exhaust stock by long tube headers (Kooks) and Borla exhaust ?
    Check the VE just for a curiosity. WOT fueling of course as well. And as always, make sure it doesn't knock.

  10. #10
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    Thank you for these answers.
    The engine is otherwise stock.
    Here is the table VE:



    Regarding consumption, it is rather moderate. On highway at legal speeds (130 km / h) it rarely exceeds 8 litres/100km. At low load, the air / fuel ratio is often above 14 (the car is equipped with an Air / Fuel Ratio Gauge - Wide Band) while at full throttle AFR can go below 11.
    I tried to increase the spark advance of 2 degrees over a relatively wide range of use but I do not go further at the moment because small primers knock appear very locally. For exemple:
    KR ____ MAF (g/s) __ rpm __ TPS __ avance __ MAP (kPa)
    0,4 _____ 198 _____ 3450 __ 66% __ 19 _____ 103
    0,2 ______ 50 _____ 1900 __ 35% __ 21,5 ____ 60

  11. #11
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    knocks below 1 are too small ...you can increase...it can be also an oversensibility

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    To me it looks like a very rudimentary scaled MAF only tune at about 25%. IFR then would be for an injector (or BAP) flowing at 60 lbs. And of course the obligatory rapped PE

    The timing table is what led me to this assumption.

    Ed M
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    And what do you think of this MAF Calibration?


  14. #14
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    Doesen't look right to me, they are typically smooth curves, and the highest low number must be the same as the lowest high number on the two maps. Take a look at a stock MAF curve in one of the sample tunes in samples.

    I don't rape PE tables cause I don't know what I am doing anyway....

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Again I the MAF table has been scaled by 25% to match the IFR so you increase the max the actual air flow from 510 g/s to 635 g/s based on the 510 limit. Once you hit the 510 value, this is when the PE rappers come to help

    The 1000 hz cell is set to the max should you ever "overflow" by hitting the MAF HZ limit which some OS's do and roll over to 0.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 11-24-2012 at 06:22 AM. Reason: added better expalanation on scaling
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post

    The 1000 hz cell is set to the max should you ever "overflow" by hitting the MAF HZ limit which some OS's do and roll over to 0.

    Ed M
    Sorry but I don't understand very well your comments about the 1000 Hz cell. Probably due to my poor knowledge of engine tuning ... and also of the English language!

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    Sorry but I don't understand very well your comments about the 1000 Hz cell. Probably due to my poor knowledge of engine tuning ... and also of the English language!
    The MAF sensor develops a frequency in hertz to the PCM based on the air mass flowing through it; air flow freq low and air flow freq high. The higher the air mass the higher the frequency. When you tune, you fill in the respective frequency cell with the air mas (g/sec) so the PCM knows the amount of air for its fueling calculation based on the frequency value received.

    There is a maximum of 12000 hz in the air flow freq high table. Some OS's will cycle back to 1000 hz cell when you exceed the 12000 hz. Normally the 1000 hz cell would be very low thus resulting in a massive lean condition. The "fix" is to insert the max airflow value (510 g/sec is the maximum value the cell can be programmed to) in the first cell to maintain fueling to save your engine. If you search the forum for "MAF Patch" you will get more info and see how HPTuners has corrected this in their custom Operating Systems in a more scientific manner......but both work.

    By the way, because the maximum value for MAF air flow is 510 g/sec, you need a way to "fool" the PCM should you engine ingest more than that. One way is to "rape the PE" which will add more fueling as your demand exceeds the 510 max. The more "scientific approach" is to scale the Injector flow rate (IFR) and air flow tables down by a constant value. This will still maintain the same ratio of air to fuel while staying within IFR maximum value of 63.6 lbs/hr for larger injectors and above the 510 g/sec air flow. Your tune has been scaled by 25% for just this reason.

    Hope this helps.

    Ed M
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  18. #18
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    Thank you very much for these explanations.

  19. #19
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    I you need a good tuner in France, just send me a MP.
    I've already tuned Vortech Z06 and H/C 427 forged engine, several modded ZR1.
    Found a real dyno too. I've already used these cheap Italian dyno for a customer in the Cote D'Azur Area. (C6 Z06 Forged Proline H/C).
    I was 703 hp, 800NM according to the dyno. I used to work on superflow dyno.
    Btw, your flywheel dyno calculation is wrong, it's 2.53, not 2.57 the final ration for 5th gear.
    Your dyno sheet means absolutely nothing. A dyno is a tuning tool for before/after results.
    Just trust load bearing dynos.
    These dyno are just good for customer bragging, not a tuning tool.

    Tuning a supercharged car is no joke.
    Do you have a wideband ?

    I've always from the stock tune and not the Vortech crappy tune. You need to correctly scale the tune too.

    visit our French forum : corvettecircus.com
    Last edited by Brice; 11-29-2012 at 05:52 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanfi View Post
    Sorry but I don't understand very well your comments about the 1000 Hz cell. Probably due to my poor knowledge of engine tuning ... and also of the English language!
    That right there is where it starts. You're not going to understand the basics of engine calibration nor the reason why it's done without doing some basic homework. It appears you're asking for someone to tune the car. If that is indeed the case then ask, don't beat around the bush.