454 LSX BUILD with Card style MAF TUNING HELP PLEASE!!!!

[427 DENALI]

Ok, Here is a rundown;
I have a 08 GMC Denali truck, that I have made some changes in the setup, and they are giving me hell. Here are the specs:
LSX block with scat 4.125 stroker crank, rods, and 4.185 Manley Pistons with 7cc VR; T.E.A ported TFS 245 heads with 70cc combustion chambers, and comp 281/289 231/239 .614/.624 lift, 111LSA with 3 deg advance. Harland Sharp 1.7 rockers FAST LSXRT intake with Nick Williams 102mm TB, FAST 46 # injectors and the kicker LS3/7 card style MAF. If anyone can help with getting this truck tuned I am so grateful; dont mind paying either, just Tired.
Here is what I started with and the log. LTFT's were max'd
I changed the displacement and had to add some base air to help keep it running on a tune from a reputable tuner that I recieved as a starter tune, just to help get me kicked off with the MAF. I also changed the TB scalar for the 102mm.
Does the MAF table look to be close, and can you actually perform VE tuning on the 08 GMC truck operating system, I have heard different views.
If any other info is needed please just ask, I am a starter mainly in this tuning stuff and some things make sense and some are still a little cloudy.
Thanks for any help guys,

[427 DENALI]

I inputted the fuel injector table to be correctly represented for the injectors installed, and added 20 percent to the MAF table and got this to get the LTFT's closer to perspective, but have now caused other issues with idleing and going dead when engine is raised, as well as putting in gear. We have figured that the MAF may be over represented, but how else is there to fix the problem other than misrepresenting the injectors by that same 20 percent, and returning the MAF back.
Suggestions wanted, NO NEEDED!

FOOTNOTE: If any of you guys can tune or help tune this truck, please inform, I am willing to compensate whomever, wandering now if I am over my head with this one. I have done my other cars and trucks without too much fuss, or obviously did not require much; but this one is fighting me pretty good.

[427 DENALI]

No One Has Any Ideas Or Help

[Kyne]

Switch to MAF only to get it driving well, Airflow>dynamic>high RPM disable set to 40 and re-enable to 39. I say this since you said you weren't sure if the VE table can be tuned (it can) Also your HO timing looks awful.

Also you might want to increase the TB scalar, 7900 works well for me but that may not be that big of a deal.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

FWIW, the reason you're having so much trouble tuning is because you have crap injectors with crap data. Does your manifold take shorty injectors? If so then you need to buy yourself a set of LS9 injectors which all the correct data is readily available for and install them.

As already mentioned though, put the truck in pure MAF mode. Set enable to 200 and re-enable to 100 so that you have SD assistance during starting.

[427 DENALI]

Switch to MAF only to get it driving well, Airflow>dynamic>high RPM disable set to 40 and re-enable to 39. I say this since you said you weren't sure if the VE table can be tuned (it can) Also your HO timing looks awful.

Also you might want to increase the TB scalar, 7900 works well for me but that may not be that big of a deal.

Gonna go out and try this out now and see how far off it is using just the MAF calibration, with the injectors entered in correctly.
Timing is scetchy still because of a somewhat high dynamic compression, It will definitely need some touch up but I have to get the truck to run a little better before i start with adding additional timing, and cleaning it up some.

[427 DENALI]

Thanks for that info, I will report my findings.

[427 DENALI]

FWIW, the reason you're having so much trouble tuning is because you have crap injectors with crap data. Does your manifold take shorty injectors? If so then you need to buy yourself a set of LS9 injectors which all the correct data is readily available for and install them.

As already mentioned though, put the truck in pure MAF mode. Set enable to 200 and re-enable to 100 so that you have SD assistance during starting.

The truck intake doesn't take the short injector, it takes the LS2 style injector. The information from FAST was that they flow 46#/hour at 58 psi, and so I need to change the enable to 200 rather than 40?

[Kyne]

FWIW, the reason you're having so much trouble tuning is because you have crap injectors with crap data. Does your manifold take shorty injectors? If so then you need to buy yourself a set of LS9 injectors which all the correct data is readily available for and install them.

As already mentioned though, put the truck in pure MAF mode. Set enable to 200 and re-enable to 100 so that you have SD assistance during starting.

Im not disagreeing with this at all, but I was under the impression that LS9 injectors are only good on roots blowers since the injector pattern is different and sprays at a different angle. I do agree that FAST sucks since they don't have data but I haven't had any problems with them getting them to run correctly.

Gonna go out and try this out now and see how far off it is using just the MAF calibration, with the injectors entered in correctly.
Timing is scetchy still because of a somewhat high dynamic compression, It will definitely need some touch up but I have to get the truck to run a little better before i start with adding additional timing, and cleaning it up some.

Not talking about raising where it is low, Im talking about off idle where you have 49* of timing.

[Kyne]

The truck intake doesn't take the short injector, it takes the LS2 style injector. The information from FAST was that they flow 46#/hour at 58 psi, and so I need to change the enable to 200 rather than 40?

either one will work, I just delete 0's so its easy to change it back (4000 = 40) but as long as you change it to less than idle it will be MAF only.

[427 DENALI]

Im not disagreeing with this at all, but I was under the impression that LS9 injectors are only good on roots blowers since the injector pattern is different and sprays at a different angle. I do agree that FAST sucks since they don't have data but I haven't had any problems with them getting them to run correctly.



Not talking about raising where it is low, Im talking about off idle where you have 49* of timing.

I dont know what the reasoning was for that, I never actually touched ANY timing tables yet, they are from the starter tune I recieved. I really never paid much attention to that.

And secondly: FAST injectors are not good????

[427 DENALI]

OK
I disabled VE table and made some other changes to perform some MAF tuning, and after pasting histograms I come up with this scan and tune. Does this look like an acurate account for the MAF outputs, for an engine this size, and if so then I would assume that I would then need to go in and get the base running airflow up to match what the MAF is showing, am I coprrect? The problem I am having right now is It will crank up, but go dead soon as you put it into gear; unless you are feathering the gas when you are making the shift, as well as it will go dead when you are coming to an idle. I am gonna try it out by increasing the table and see what happens any way. Looks like progress finally.
Thanks for you guys help.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Im not disagreeing with this at all, but I was under the impression that LS9 injectors are only good on roots blowers since the injector pattern is different and sprays at a different angle. I do agree that FAST sucks since they don't have data but I haven't had any problems with them getting them to run.

There's nothing at all wrong with the spray pattern on the injectors. All that really changes is atomization characteristics, which is really in favor of getting the shot into the intake port faster....

The LS9 doesn't run under boost all the time either. I've got about 5 different motors out there with LS9 injectors and all the people including myself report great mileage. They're the way to go.

OP: all you need is a set of injector extenders. I have a set here that I'll sell to you for a great price that'll allow you to run shorty style injectors in that manifold.

And no. I hate FAST injectors. They have no low pulse data or offsets. I always recommend an ID injector or LS9's. they have all the data, and there is no guess work to them.

[Kyne]

OK
I disabled VE table and made some other changes to perform some MAF tuning, and after pasting histograms I come up with this scan and tune. Does this look like an acurate account for the MAF outputs, for an engine this size, and if so then I would assume that I would then need to go in and get the base running airflow up to match what the MAF is showing, am I coprrect? The problem I am having right now is It will crank up, but go dead soon as you put it into gear; unless you are feathering the gas when you are making the shift, as well as it will go dead when you are coming to an idle. I am gonna try it out by increasing the table and see what happens any way. Looks like progress finally.
Thanks for you guys help.

Just add to the idle airflow table in the in gear portion.

There's nothing at all wrong with the spray pattern on the injectors. All that really changes is atomization characteristics, which is really in favor of getting the shot into the intake port faster....

The LS9 doesn't run under boost all the time either. I've got about 5 different motors out there with LS9 injectors and all the people including myself report great mileage. They're the way to go.

OP: all you need is a set of injector extenders. I have a set here that I'll sell to you for a great price that'll allow you to run shorty style injectors in that manifold.

And no. I hate FAST injectors. They have no low pulse data or offsets. I always recommend an ID injector or LS9's. they have all the data, and there is no guess work to them.

I wasn't referring to just boost, but the angle the blower puts the injector is less than ideal for a regular intake.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=30

Not sure it makes a huge difference NA or not honestly.

And I agree I don't like FAST for the very reasons you state but I think he can get the car running fine with those in. Ive used them with good outcome before but don't like to fudge stuff either.

EDIT* not arguing just asking about the LS9s really.

[427 DENALI]

Just add to the idle airflow table in the in gear portion.



I wasn't referring to just boost, but the angle the blower puts the injector is less than ideal for a regular intake.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=30

Not sure it makes a huge difference NA or not honestly.

And I agree I don't like FAST for the very reasons you state but I think he can get the car running fine with those in. Ive used them with good outcome before but don't like to fudge stuff either.

EDIT* not arguing just asking about the LS9s really.

SO if Fast injectors require fudging is it that they dont flow the flow they are rated or do they flow more than they are rated; just asking . If i had a constant in the MAF then it would be easier to find out how far off the injectors are, but with both now being a variable, makes it somehow tough to know whether the MAF is actually correct or if I needed to actually underreport the the injectors to bring the LTFT's back in some.

Thanks in advance, for all you guys help;
Kenneth