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Thread: VE Table for 2Bar OS

  1. #41
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    The only big inaccuracies are injector data (not a problem with stock stuff and IDs) and wideband. Wideband isn't an issue if it's close enough to the cylinder head and not behind a cat. Beyond that, wideband inaccuracies would present itself in normal tuning anyway, so it shouldn't really scare anybody off.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    just a dash of it, with my JD
    The most hated, make the most power.
    93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlrx7 View Post
    i just added a maf screen, ditched the 50% scale bullshit tune, and went with the double stioch method with a maf tune. had car dialed in with 3 street tunes, then three wot passes.

    back on 93 octane until summer time rolls around.

    I read the thread, and I understand where it is giong, but I honestly dont have the time to figure it out. I'm a perfectionist and I can see my self obsessing about it for weeks until it was perfect.

    -Carl
    same here. i want to slam my head into a wall because of it.
    The most hated, make the most power.
    93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.

  4. #44
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    So any hints how it would work with lambda so I can just get rid of AFR out of the equation? I don't ever look at AFR and only tune with lambda so your way would be perfect.
    2006 Holden Monaro I Phantom Black Metallic I Red I One of 416
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  5. #45
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Commanded AFR / Commanded EQ ratio = Stoich AFR

    See where that gets you.

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Commanded AFR / Commanded EQ ratio = Stoich AFR

    See where that gets you.
    That works for EQ of 1.00, but what about in PE? 12.9/1.138= 11.34

    so would it be CommandedAFR*CommandedEQ so 12.9*1.138= 14.68 or maybe by EQ ratio you mean 1/1.138 which would be the same as this one.

    so Lambda*CommandedAFR*CommandedEQ or .88*12.9*1.138= 12.9 and that way you wont have to go in manually and put in the stoich for every car?
    2006 Holden Monaro I Phantom Black Metallic I Red I One of 416
    L92/L76 I Streetsweeper HTR I SLP LT I LoudMouth 2
    JHP V2 I Powdercoated Black 18s I Kyne Splitter


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTWRK View Post
    "After this rough' VE table was built, I used my wide band and VE / AFR error histo's to polish it up a bit."

    I have been trying to figure out the Bluecat copy, paste, edit, paste thing for a couple days now. I'm still unable to build or find the correct Histo. (RPM/MAP vs AFR err) in HP Scanner that coresponds with the VE table in the custom OS. I have the 2bar - 210 kpa map (horizontal) but not the 6,800 rpm (vertical) The table I have reads to 8,000 rpm's vertical. I try to build one but keep getting odd numbers displayed. Ex: 400.600.801. 1000.

    I don't think I am asking anyone to give up the farm, just a little help.
    If it would help you, I can send you my latest tune file and config? If you want it, just shoot me a PM with your email address. You can then just do the "compare" thing to see what my tune looks like verse yours.
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....

  8. #48
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyne View Post
    so Lambda*CommandedAFR*CommandedEQ or .88*12.9*1.138= 12.9 and that way you wont have to go in manually and put in the stoich for every car?
    Atta boy. FYI, Commanded EQ ratio is commanded lambda in the E38/E67.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Atta boy. FYI, Commanded EQ ratio is commanded lambda in the E38/E67.
    Just on the scanner though right? I have different Configs for E38/67 and for E40 so that should not be a problem.
    2006 Holden Monaro I Phantom Black Metallic I Red I One of 416
    L92/L76 I Streetsweeper HTR I SLP LT I LoudMouth 2
    JHP V2 I Powdercoated Black 18s I Kyne Splitter


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  10. #50
    Still don't get it. Trying to build a VE on 2Bar Os from scratch. I have worked several hours with the tables but still can't seem to make a VE histo axis and labels that will match up with the VE table labels in Edit program. Either the number of cells are different. I rework the table in edit and it wont work with the histo in scanner.

    Can anyone be of help? I realize everyone wants us to learn how to do things on our on but at some point we can loose interest. For us that do this for a hobby on our own vehicles, and do not desire to earn a living tuning. Where do we find help?
    2011 Camaro, 430cu Lsx, Mast Heads, Ported TVS 2300, ID 1300's, E85-Flex, Squash Fuel System, 250 Direct Port Nitrous, LPE Overdrive rear 10/14 Rib, Overdrive, 2.8" Upper, NW 102, 2" ARH, PATC built A6, Circle D Conv. etc. BMR 15" Wheel Conversion w/29/10.5W's/15 Hoosiers

    2007 H2 SUT, 427 LSX, T76 BB@16lbs 225 Trickflows, Vic JR Intake, Lt's, Dual return fuel sys, Comp 236-232-115, 4L80e, 3000 Vigilante, etc.

  11. #51
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    FWIW, I do this as a hobby.

    Email me your tune file. Are you using lambda like a man, or AFR on your wideband?

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  12. #52
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post




    I guess Coke should give out their formula so people can make their own soda.





    Gooooooooooooooooood luck.

    I wasn't aware there was a "hacking" community dedicated to reverse engineering Coke Assembly, I'm even more surprised that there is a Coke modifying community, or even a boosted Coke forum!

    What really is good about the Coke community is knowing there are people that know how to simply do things and share how, but then there are also people that say they know how, but absolutely refuse to explain how they do it. Now I know 50% of the time they actually know how to do it, and the other is pure ignorance (that a correct VE table will fix all of your boosted transient lean problem, or PE lag... .. hahaha. Matter of fact, I heard that same person said you could not detect real knock.).
    Last edited by 10_SS; 11-16-2012 at 10:38 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
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  13. #53
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I've done my fair share, and other people's shares of helping. You are just amazingly stubborn and combat EVERYTHING people tell you. I don't need to just give away all the results of hard work and research I've done.

    Funny, I do a lot of PD blower cars and don't have transient problems, be it 0411, E40, E38/67... You're so hung up thinking something had to automatically be glitched out in your PCM because it had transient issues in pure MAF mode. It couldn't POSSIBLY be the fact that it wasn't using VE whatsoever (which, by the way, GM has a lengthy work instruction structured around why this happens and why/how VE is implemented to correct it).

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  14. #54
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    You are just amazingly stubborn and combat EVERYTHING people tell you.
    I combat only what you say as of recently since so far you come across like you know every single thing... but yet not one thing you've said actually works and I've spent many hours doing exactly what you say only to question you about it and you get very defensive. I mean, I'm just trying different things since the software is somewhat new and explaining what I see, and I know what I see, I'm not new to that.

    Other people's info has helped me immensely, but they are also nice about it and say they are not sure if it will work.

    You just demand your settings work for everybody, and when they (me) say they don't work, you get pissed and blame it on empty VE tables, or lack of experience, or whatever else.

    So anyway, lets all get along and SHARE info. I've put 20hrs into this tune. It's a hobby. I hope it helps somebody. It has mods and tweeks from 2-3 people on this site that also publicly posted there tunes, The only problem SO FAR is lean when warm IAT's. I have messed with the transient fuel settings, so don't trust these. This is for a stock LS3 2010 Camaro, with a Whipple, Whipple Injectors Whipple BAP, and ZR1 MAP, running in SD, 6 speed manual. The other thing I noticed is the car doesnt like to start when HOT/Heat soaked (another sign that it's LEAN based on HOT IAT's).

    BTW, have you seen any IAT cal problems with the stock Whipple IAT sensor? My one single Whipple IAT sensor shows 15F error, and since I posted lots of people do as well. Figured you'd want to know about that.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 11-18-2012 at 02:41 AM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  15. #55
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Good luck.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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  16. #56
    Appreciate a little help.

    I am attempting to tune VE and hopefully fix a lean area during boost ramp up. Transient fuel modifications have resulted in everything EXCEPT consistancy. I cannot obtain same result even twice in a row. Logs will reflect 800% inj duty one time, 100% the next and then no injection duty cycle change at all. All within the same log, 1 minute apart, same gear, rpm and 100% TPS for the same duration. I am at a loss with Transient tuning.

    The only thing I have not tried is tuning Speed Density with the Custom OS.
    I am still unable to build a VE table from scratch that will even start the engine. I have yet found a way to modify EDIT histo to represent same values in the scanner that will give me the ability to copy/paste. The VE table in EDIT reflects 33 Horizontal x 33 Vertical. Trying to make a Histo in Scanner only gives me 32 Horizontal x 33 Vertical resolution.
    I know it must not be as difficult as I am making it.

    Can anyone help?
    2011 Camaro, 430cu Lsx, Mast Heads, Ported TVS 2300, ID 1300's, E85-Flex, Squash Fuel System, 250 Direct Port Nitrous, LPE Overdrive rear 10/14 Rib, Overdrive, 2.8" Upper, NW 102, 2" ARH, PATC built A6, Circle D Conv. etc. BMR 15" Wheel Conversion w/29/10.5W's/15 Hoosiers

    2007 H2 SUT, 427 LSX, T76 BB@16lbs 225 Trickflows, Vic JR Intake, Lt's, Dual return fuel sys, Comp 236-232-115, 4L80e, 3000 Vigilante, etc.

  17. #57
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Where are you located?

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Where are you located?
    Dallas, Texas

    I received your email last week and sent you my file. I just assumed Thanksgiving may have delayed response.
    2011 Camaro, 430cu Lsx, Mast Heads, Ported TVS 2300, ID 1300's, E85-Flex, Squash Fuel System, 250 Direct Port Nitrous, LPE Overdrive rear 10/14 Rib, Overdrive, 2.8" Upper, NW 102, 2" ARH, PATC built A6, Circle D Conv. etc. BMR 15" Wheel Conversion w/29/10.5W's/15 Hoosiers

    2007 H2 SUT, 427 LSX, T76 BB@16lbs 225 Trickflows, Vic JR Intake, Lt's, Dual return fuel sys, Comp 236-232-115, 4L80e, 3000 Vigilante, etc.

  19. #59
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Lots of alcohol has been consumed over thanksgiving. Memories have been purged. Lol.

    I'll take a look.

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  20. #60
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post

    My VE table above 5000 rpm however is way off. I got a bit nervous trying to dial that area of the VE table in with PE disabled and all the SD multipliers set to 1.
    If your tuning over 5000rpm, NEVER DISABLE PE, OR SET IT TO 1.00. Leave it at 1.25 or whatever normal PE AFR you want to target. Anytime you are in 5000rpm you are likely at WOT/PE, so that is how you should focus tuning. Why do you think you should care about 14.7AFR above 5000rpm? Do you cruise there? Tune these area's targeting rich fuel, there is no point doing it any other way. As long as you tune in a reading of say 12.5AFR, and your wideband reads 12.5AFR (which should require 1.17 in the PE EQ Table), then your good!

    Simply set your 5000+ PE fuel (in this example 1.17), remove 10 degrees of timing above 5000rpm, and go WOT @ 250rpm increments, and dial in the VE table until you get it right. If you see the 5250rpm lean, then add fuel to anything above that RPM and MAP value, then run it again, over and over.

    You can even leave Closed Loop enabled as long as you see negative LTFT %'s your WOT fueling should hold as this will get you very close. If you see alot of RED LTFT additions in the WOT area's, then that means WOT could lean out once you fix the lean LTFT area's causing the lean LTFT WOT readings.

    This goes for MAF and SD tables.

    This is a really good way to tune the car as you drive it long distances to work, where you dont want to leave it in open loop, targeting 14.7 all the time. It will get you very good accuracy.

    Besides, your biggest challenge tuning SD tables is outside air temp as my LTFT lean out 5-7% or more from 30F ambient air, to 80F ambient air temp.

    MAF is the way to go once you get a working VE table.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 11-30-2012 at 11:57 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires