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Thread: VE Table for 2Bar OS

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    Couldn't we then just apply the lambda error to the Maf based dynamic air calculated GMVE? Then we'd have an corrected GMVE even with the maf being out of tune, or is there more to it than that? I like this method btw, it sure would've saved me a lot of time.
    Last edited by bbrooks98; 11-06-2012 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    If I told you how to do it, you wouldn't learn anything!
    Things must have changed since I went to school.

    I am struggling with this very issue. If there is someone out there who can assist me in understanding how to do this properly and give me feedback while I learn how to do it, I will paypal you for your time.

  3. #23
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I'm an engineer. I was always told to just figure it out.

    Read up on how GMVE is used to calculate a cylinder load. Change the equation around so that your calculator GMVE from cylinder load, MAP, and MAT. Now think about how cylinder load is related to injector flow rate, injector pulse width, and AFR.

    I could post the PIDs that I spent a good chunk of time writing out (PIDs that use lambda instead of AFR and compensate regardless of what the stoich is programmed as), but like I said, nobody learns when they are just given the end result. Plus, I just don't want to give out for free what I worked hard to get to.

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  4. #24
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZZMike View Post
    Things must have changed since I went to school.

    I am struggling with this very issue. If there is someone out there who can assist me in understanding how to do this properly and give me feedback while I learn how to do it, I will paypal you for your time.
    It's because Dave hasn't had his pickle tickled in awhile. :O

    Really though, MOST of us here are engineers, all with our dedicated specialties.

    I've gotten good enough at load testing now I can generate myself a perfectly good running VE table by hand in the matter of about an hour. Are there better tables? Probably, but my fuel trims and AFR stay in line no matter what so I don't really care. Lol.
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  5. #25
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I just don't want to give out for free what I worked hard to get to.
    I gave a working 2 bar tune to the CamaroZ28 community (that I also spent a large amount of time realizing baro reset was causing all kinds of problems, getting Tunercats/LT1Edit to find the tables, and how to fix lean tip in with no tables).

    I just gave that away, posted the tune on the website and they made a sticky.

    For me, helping people makes me happy. There needs to me more of me in the world!
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  6. #26
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I guess Coke should give out their formula so people can make their own soda.





    Gooooooooooooooooood luck.

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  7. #27
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post




    I guess Coke should give out their formula so people can make their own soda.





    Gooooooooooooooooood luck.
    Nobody likes Coke.
    Last edited by IDRIVEAG8GT; 11-08-2012 at 12:21 PM.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    Nobody likes Coke.
    i do dammit!
    The most hated, make the most power.
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  9. #29
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Area47 View Post
    i do dammit!
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post
    I'm going to have to ponder Dave's comments to figure out what he said.... Initail pondering has given me a headache.

    At any rate, I used the Bluecat tool to pull the data out of my tune file and built the VE table from those coefficients. After I had the table in the BC application, it was pretty simple to just copy/paste that data into the 2 bar VE table. I am NA, so I did not need to run MAP about 105, so I was able to increase resolution with the extra cells the 2 bar VE table had by interpolating between columns.

    After this rough' VE table was built, I used my wide band and VE / AFR error histo's to polish it up a bit.

    My VE table above 5000 rpm however is way off. I got a bit nervous trying to dial that area of the VE table in with PE disabled and all the SD multipliers set to 1.
    "After this rough' VE table was built, I used my wide band and VE / AFR error histo's to polish it up a bit."

    I have been trying to figure out the Bluecat copy, paste, edit, paste thing for a couple days now. I'm still unable to build or find the correct Histo. (RPM/MAP vs AFR err) in HP Scanner that coresponds with the VE table in the custom OS. I have the 2bar - 210 kpa map (horizontal) but not the 6,800 rpm (vertical) The table I have reads to 8,000 rpm's vertical. I try to build one but keep getting odd numbers displayed. Ex: 400.600.801. 1000.

    I don't think I am asking anyone to give up the farm, just a little help.
    2011 Camaro, 430cu Lsx, Mast Heads, Ported TVS 2300, ID 1300's, E85-Flex, Squash Fuel System, 250 Direct Port Nitrous, LPE Overdrive rear 10/14 Rib, Overdrive, 2.8" Upper, NW 102, 2" ARH, PATC built A6, Circle D Conv. etc. BMR 15" Wheel Conversion w/29/10.5W's/15 Hoosiers

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I'm an engineer. I was always told to just figure it out.

    Read up on how GMVE is used to calculate a cylinder load. Change the equation around so that your calculator GMVE from cylinder load, MAP, and MAT. Now think about how cylinder load is related to injector flow rate, injector pulse width, and AFR.

    I could post the PIDs that I spent a good chunk of time writing out (PIDs that use lambda instead of AFR and compensate regardless of what the stoich is programmed as), but like I said, nobody learns when they are just given the end result. Plus, I just don't want to give out for free what I worked hard to get to.
    GMVE = AFR*Fuelmass*MAT/MAP?
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  12. #32
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    i just added a maf screen, ditched the 50% scale bullshit tune, and went with the double stioch method with a maf tune. had car dialed in with 3 street tunes, then three wot passes.

    back on 93 octane until summer time rolls around.

    I read the thread, and I understand where it is giong, but I honestly dont have the time to figure it out. I'm a perfectionist and I can see my self obsessing about it for weeks until it was perfect.

    -Carl

  13. #33
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyne View Post
    GMVE = AFR*Fuelmass*MAT/MAP?
    Now calculate the fuel mass based on loggable parameters.

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Now calculate the fuel mass based on loggable parameters.
    I don't want to give it all away either. IPW*IFR? But how do you make it so it works with Lambda and not AFR? AFR in the equation = lambda*stoich value?
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  15. #35
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    commanded eq = lambda

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlrx7 View Post
    commanded eq = lambda
    Is this in reference to my post? commanded eq = 1/lambda
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  17. #37
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    For those who have PMed and assisted me in gaining an understanding, thanks.

  18. #38
    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-decomposition


    Looks like most the info is right there, but just like RHS said how accurate is that? Add in all the different injectors out there without any reliable data and....

  19. #39
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I will say this. I've used the back calculation with IDs, stock injectors, and mystery injectors.

    It works great with IDs and stock stuff. It will literally get you to within 2%. Other stuff...
    Not so well. It will still rough it in though.

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  20. #40
    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    It just seems like a lot of variables each with their own degree of inaccuracies, which depending on your injectors, wideband, overlap etc could add up to a large error when all calculated together. The Same can be said of the MAF too i guess for different reasons. I'll give it a shot tonight though just to see what i get.(car is already pretty spot on) I'll sample both and maybe try averaging the two, anyway thanks for the idea.