GEN V LT1 !!!! here we go !

[DSteck]

While I agree that the aftermarket isn't up to par with DI as it is for port injection, I don't think it's as far off as everyone thinks.
While it's still considered by many to be "small shop hack" stuff, many of the LNF (Cobalt SS/TC) vendors have made decent advancements in trying to accommodate fueling, in the form of larger fuel pump lobes, and axillary fueling.

Until there's a finished product that can't be construed as a bandaid, I'll call the aftermarket "not ready". It'll get there... But I don't like third party piggy back stuff.

[zippy performance]

I think the N/A stuff will have plenty of room since the injectors were designed from the beginning for E85 capability and room even from there. This is going to put us in the world of the diesels which is ramping up pressure to get more fuel then replacing injectors as we go. Many of the diesel companies I believe will begin to get into the gas side of it. This will however begin to weed out the tuners with no idea what they are doing. I also see bigger power with decent emissions and milage now.

[omega_5]

Until there's a finished product that can't be construed as a bandaid, I'll call the aftermarket "not ready". It'll get there... But I don't like third party piggy back stuff.

Hmm. While I agree that auxiliary fueling is a bandaid (much like meth injection), I still think that the upgraded fuel pump lobe is a decent step for DI. In the LNF world it was the difference between being limited to the low 400's, and jumping up to the 500's.
I'd like to see what the V8 companies can do with it.

[Sharkey]

its an interesting motor for sure. everyone seems rather hung up on the direct injection, all i can say is look at the LNF (2.0l turbo ecotec). the cars are 260hp stock, with larger turbos and stock injectors people are hitting 450whp.

here is an article i found written by zz performance about the lnf and the direct injection
http://s3.amazonaws.com/zzpstorage/t...or+writeup.pdf

[c.u]

I think the N/A stuff will have plenty of room since the injectors were designed from the beginning for E85 capability and room even from there. This is going to put us in the world of the diesels which is ramping up pressure to get more fuel then replacing injectors as we go. Many of the diesel companies I believe will begin to get into the gas side of it. This will however begin to weed out the tuners with no idea what they are doing. I also see bigger power with decent emissions and milage now.

This.

[DSteck]

Hmm. While I agree that auxiliary fueling is a bandaid (much like meth injection), I still think that the upgraded fuel pump lobe is a decent step for DI. In the LNF world it was the difference between being limited to the low 400's, and jumping up to the 500's.
I'd like to see what the V8 companies can do with it.

There will come a point when people will require bigger injectors and pumps instead of just driving the factory equipment harder though. We will see!

[omega_5]

There will come a point when people will require bigger injectors and pumps instead of just driving the factory equipment harder though. We will see!

Indeed there will be a point where people want more power than the factory injectors can handle. I'm looking at it from a standpoint that a large majority won't be pushing the limits, and the ones that do will probably be looking for a standalone fuel management system; maybe one that can accurately control DI + port fuel delivery.

I'm just trying to see the justification for the aftermarket scene to push hard on direct injectors with out the large demand that we see from the conventional injector market.
With that said, I imagine we have injectors specialists out there probably already looking in to modifying direct injectors, so maybe it's not that far off. Having the in with Yaw, you probably know better than I.

[LSxpwrdZ]

The direct injection is cool but what seems more appealing to me is the cylinder head port design and rocker arm configuration. The straight runner splayed head design alone will greatly improve hp potential. I'm still gonna look into plugging the DI ports and use conventional injectors to see how we'll they work.

[ctd]

Secondary fuel systems are sometimes beneficial, in the case of 2 stroke such as BRP's E TEC. With DI the crankshaft, crank case, rods & bearings & piston temperatures went ballistic when the crankcase fuel was removed. When the aftermarket started to turbo charge this DI motor they added fuel with some nice old fashioned injector's, fabricate a bit of a fuel rail right in front of the TB's. Charge temperature dropped as well as additional cooling to all the mechanical components, some say reliability was improved over the NA motor's

With E TEC DI fuel pressure to the injector is only 44lbs, so additional fuel supply was not required.

These wee little .8L motor easliy make over 200 crankshaft horsepower. 155 Hp NA & approx 10 Hp per pound.

[GregRexAdams]

The direct injection is cool but what seems more appealing to me is the cylinder head port design and rocker arm configuration. The straight runner splayed head design alone will greatly improve hp potential.

This. They downsized the cam. And are making more power.

[GregRexAdams]

I thought the turbo engine in the video on the tilt rig was a V6 not a V8?

I hadn't heard that, but they were demonstrating the oil pump/pickup on the LT1, so I don't know why they show a different engine.

Regardless, my point is that I'm sure supporting boost won't be an issue long.

[Wnts2Go10O]

This. They downsized the cam. And are making more power.

a lot of that is also the DI system and the piston design. the whole thing is supposed to work together. i almost think youll be disappointed when the heads are set up with port injection.

from what im hearing, the ecm will be largely self tuning

[Kaploww]

There has got to be equipment that works, as there is a multitude of vehicles out there with DI making massive amounts of power.

Just off the top of my head.

Audi and, BMW new turbo 4, 6, 8, and 10 cylinder turbocharged engines.

I foresee a massive amount of raiding the OEM parts bins to find compatible components. They are out there for sure though.

[Tiffo60]

This is ripped from another site but makes for a good read

Final got a small amount of GO ahead to explain VVT in the 2014 LT1. So lets get into and I will try to answer all the other questions in my pm's and on the thread in this answer as well

Variable cam timing is a means of precisely controlling the flow of air into and out of an engine by allowing the camshaft to be dynamically phased relative to its crankshaft. This is the water down version "RED TAPE" on extremely accurate details... so to put it simply these are the typical inputs systems are....

Engine Valve Timing systems = ignition systems etc.

Timing Chain Itself = chains are the best solution for timing drives due to compact packaging, optimized efficiency, the ability to minimize dynamic instability, proven long-term field durability and adaptability across multiple engine models.

Variable Cam Timing = ECM and Crankshaft Position data

The phaser = OVC AND OTHER SYSTEMS

Secondary Air systems = PCV VACUUM PUMPS

Actuators = TOP SECRET

Thermal Management components and systems = Enormous amounts of data inputs from sensors. This combats Heat Energy vs Load. And this is some what complex but it dealing with exhaust loss, cooling loss, pumping loss, and mechanical frictional loss.

Then throw in complicated transmission controls and this quickly becomes overwhelming to deal with not to mention the ABS and STABILITY SYSTEMS all functioning as one.

And this is not everything out there yet. No offence to anyone but there are many things that have not been tried yet by the aftermarket. A lot of things I had to leave out due to "RED TAPE."

This is the truth, this is NO reason to be cocky or snuff, this is just a pure simple fact. I am here to answer your questions...There is no such thing as just tuning anymore dealing with VVT, VVC, DI, CVVT + DI or CVVT +VVC + DI + FORCE INDUCTION. There is a few million dominos in the equations/ variables and all it takes is just one domino to change everything.

Then throw in Direct Injection and it really becomes an area you have to have to be some type of expert/guru..

Understanding

What will make the VVT problematic for most...... is the ECM is working serious mathematical equations to make the cam think the intake side of the valves are constantly changing the timing to stay open different durations for optimal a/f ratio configuration.
In reality it's NOT, In VVT the Duration or Lift is not changed, just the timing in VVT. It doesn't matter because it's what the pressures are telling the ECM and this is where VCCT is slightly more complicated as we've given the cam more free range of motion/timing. And that is putting it lightly and watering it down. And yes guys this is all still dealing with just "valve overlap" at the moment, but I will get into that later.

Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration.

Variable duration has more effect on power than opening and closing the valve earlier or later as with normal cam phasing cycles aka CVVT/VVT.

This is where the ECM in the 2014 LT1 comes into play. Think of it as a jury of experts engineers from all fields of all systems over the vehicle, receiving data & voting on what outputs are appropriate in nano seconds. Think of the first OS system as a BOARD OF DIRECTORS ...they are free to do as they please as long as the sensors are reporting accurate information/data. However if they get to radical the Second OS steps in to prevent a total destruction of the engine/system/vehicle with the proven stability parameters not marginal stable parameters.

The engine is very advanced, the ECM is highly intelligent when it comes to making decisions based on input data. The engine is slightly and almost at the limits of stable combustion.... Don't panic this does NOT mean it is nearly maxed out in horsepower. It just means modifying the combustion cycle beyond physics is foolish. So what happens? So what Next? A dual mode ECM with even more exotic variables forget about 100's of coefficient models think thousands of engine operating models. The ECM is self aware and can choose what is best your laptop and tuning is NOT needed.

The ECM can and will control VVT to increase valve overlap to the point where the engine can pump air with no load this is done for reasons that I am NOT at liberty to say. When in performance mode and at WOT open throttle while the exhaust valve is open the ECM is will send a bursts of fuel down into the exhaust system this creates a controlled explosion in the exhaust system and this is done for reasons I can't state and will NOT elaborate more on. So DO NOT ASK....

When the average gear head looks at the 2014 LT1 cam specs. He thinks emission cam / gas saver cam and relatively conservative. And those specs are 200intake/207exhaust duration LSA 116.5 ........cam lift intake.551 and exhaust .524

The first thing that person wants to do, due to habit is change the cam for something larger... more aggressive then change the timing and install larger injectors to dump fuel into the cylinders. That works for yesterday's technology and when doing this in these types of engines this is inexperience... what use to work in past engines DOESN"T work in these engines. This is NOT your engine of yesterday. This engine platform is capable of making monstrous horsepower in OEM form. Experience pending of course.... You have to go back to school or enroll in some type of semester course within the technology developers to get a handle on what is happening today.

People will say.... Hey Direct injection has been around a very long time and VVT has been around a very long time... why is it all of a sudden so special/different? It is all about precision and the ultra fine control today's processors will ALLOW for mass production. The ECM allows for more efficiency due to greater processing of equations and variables which allows for greater efficiency/horsepower.

This so called gas saver cam your looking at can do crazy things with extreme valve overlap in performance mode for racing without even touching a control of a laptop. The ECM 92 controller can quickly modify itself to each and every single one RPM in the powerband with extreme precison. We are talking individual RPM, Throttle Inputs, Cam inputs, crankshaft inputs, fuel tables, fuel pressure solenoid and all other systems etc.... they are constantly changing. The ECM 92 is super clever & self aware and combined with this cam will out perform much larger cams, I am 100% sure of it. This is possible due to the complex physics at work in the engine.

What you call emissions standards is what we call captured efficiency. What is emission? Simply put it is wasted potential horsepower....... Everyone is so concern and getting caught up with losing HP/TQ due to the drivetrain drag. That they over look the fact of the matter is most highly modified engines throw away the possible 15%- 20% of dynamic cylinder pressure/ HorsePower into the exhaust system due to excessive inefficiency cams and cylinder head combinations. There is a lot to be gain here.

Then that person spends $1000.00 of dollars changing more parts for more... HP/Cylinder Dynamic Pressure threw cam swaps, intakes, heads.... All your doing is chasing efficiency... and most give up when seeing peak numbers that look impressive and after a while...that horsepower number becomes numb and boring...then is on to repeat the process of changing more parts to raise horsepower....

And the difference is..... Efficiency is combining your parts in a systematic order. And Effectiveness is doing the right thing so that the parts will do their very best.
And if that is hard to understand ..... what that means is .... selective the parts to do the combustion process is just as important as the quality of the process and the parts being used. Optimization is key each and everytime.....

I stated on 12/04/2012 post #350 that GM was going to make a major announcement. However it was delayed until yesterday. And everyone is asking me about the 4.3, 5.3 and 6.2 liter engines in the pm's. Guys you know that I am not at liberty to disclose official output numbers. Please understand that I am here to address your question without over walking the tight rope.

What I can tell you is this.... the 4.3liter V6 engine will out perform a stock LS1 in every area possible. Or to say it another way it will drag the STOCK LS1 BALLS against the Asphalt. That should give you some type of gaming changing performance we are looking at going forward.


Bigg Gunz

[ingsteve]

In Europe this type of tecnology is not new. You all in America need to stay updated with the progress and market. There are a lot of famous tuner specially in Germany (Gemballa,etc..) that provide complete package equipment for car with DI without any problem. Of course at the beginning i think it would be costly...something that can be compared from the progress from carburator to ECU.
I think in 2-3years the market will become competitive.
This is the only way to reduce mileage and emissions.
Now in Italy the regular gasoline costs around 1.8euro/litre, you can easily convert to $/gallon and imagine if you have to pay this cost for the car in USA from now on by yourself...you will push for new technology.

[Montecarlodrag]

Fortunately we are not in Italy or europe. We have enough gasoline, land and other resources. Here regular gas costs 0.61 euro/litre
The technology is available, but in some countries it's more expensive to buy a more fuel efficient car than buying the gasoline.

For example, here you can buy turbo diesel cars which are €3000 more expensive than the gasoline version. With that money you can pay all the gasoline you need for 3 years. With a difference in efficiency between the two cars of 20% you need at least 10 years of normal use to recover the extra money you spent. In 10 years you won't have the car anymore and you didn't save any money.
Some hybrid and diesel cars aren't even sold here because nobody would buy them because of the ridiculous price compared with the fuel savings.

Some day our cities will be full of 1.0L diesel engines in Mr. Bean cars like you have in europe, but not yet.

[ingsteve]

i agree with you...so why gm convert the Corvette to DI??
To stay updated...maybe not for saving ridiculus amount of gasoline (according to the price)...but if the gasoline starts to cost like champaigne so things need to change and quickly.

[bigbrian442]

As far as the PCM goes.... Can anyone say LML Duramax. Those have been out for years now and HPT and EFI can not tune them.

[gmtech16450yz]

Happened to see this while searching for something else. I haven't been on the forums in months but figured I'd comment on this one.

If HPT or EFILIVE does end up supporting the new LT1 ECM, there's gonna be some messed up tunes floating around out there! The comments about DI in this thread are mostly true. It's not like port injection tuning whatsoever. And just add in cam phasing and it gets a lot trickier. Put boost on top of those two things, and most tuners are lost. Now add in running varying amounts of Ethanol, and TWO cams with VVT, and it gets really fun. That's an LNF. A few of us have been tuning DI/Turbo/Intake AND Exhaust VVT/Ethanol blends and 5th injectors on the LNF's since 2007. I personally have about a dozen LNF's around the country running at well over 400whp/400wtq. My 2.0L daily driver was closer to 500whp/500wtq, with an almost flat torque curve from 3500rpm to 7500rpm!

Here's my advice for the guys looking at learning about these new DI engines... read everything you can find from the LNF guys that's relevant to what the new 'Vette engine is gonna be like. Learn about injection timing and injection window misfires. Learn about High Pressure Fuel Pumps and controlling the higher pressures. Here's a BIG ONE- Learn about DI intake port design/airflow/tumble BEFORE porting a DI head. (I hate to think of how many LT1 heads are gonna get destroyed by improper porting.) Learn about KR and how adding fuel and retarding ign timing on a DI engine can, and usually does, make it worse. Learn about Optimum Spark and what it effects. Learn about charge air cooling with fuel, and things like how injection timing effects exhaust soot amount. Oh yeah, and forget about being able to tell how rich or lean a DI engine is running by looking at the exhaust! Lots of HUGE potential in these engines, but also HUGE potential for making them run WORSE by messing with the wrong tables or putting in the wrong numbers.

The new 'Vette looks awesome, and DI is going to be the norm, not the exception. One of the most awesome things about the LNF's is the Bosch ECM's and Bosch Lambda sensors they have run in closed loop while at WOT. That alone has saved A LOT of motors I would guess. I'm assuming the LT1 will also have a Lambda sensor setup, I'd be surprised if it didn't. I was actually told about 5 years ago by someone from GM that all their engines were supposed to be 100% DI by 2012. They didn't quite make that, but it won't be long before all GM's gas engines are Direct Injection. For those that get one of those cars, be VERY careful tuning or buying tunes from anyone. For those looking at selling tunes for those cars, be VERY careful or you're gonna have some unhappy customers or worse, blown motors.

[ElecTech]

Not if...and no lambda sensors.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...l=1#post327236