5.3 Swap Issues

[Wagonbacker9]

I've got a 1999/2003 (1999 intake mani, TB, etc, 2003 block) 5.3l that I'm building to put into my 1993 K2500. I bought a used PCM and harness (for cheap) expecting to get a 5.3 configuration, well, after licensing the PCM it appears I've gotten a 6.0 PCM, hopefully I can make the harness work (If I need to change the trans connector I've got the end of the harness with my 4l60e), but the stock 5.3 tune files I've found all vary greatly (even firing order table?! same order but different starting point). So I'm a little frightened that I may not be able to get this thing to run due to tune complication issues, and am wondering if I could enlist the help of someone more educated than myself to get me a startup tune. I've got the gearing changes, eliminated the EGR, rear 02s,

Engine is as follows:
Stock bottom end
LS1 heads milled .028 (back to stock CR basically)
Stock HG
Cam: 228/222 .588/.581 114.5 (Comp Cams XER lobes)
3000 RPM stall
Hummer H2 intake
stock manifolds and Y, strait through muffler

Any help would be appreciated. I did some tune work on my cammed 06 GTO, but this is still not something I'm super good with. Trial and error doesn't seem to be a good way to do this...

Edit: Looking back at it, when I discovered I had 2 VSS connections, I should have known this was a 4l80e... I just dismissed it as one for validating that it was in 4L.

[Shrek]

DIY projects can save you money and promote a sense of personal satisfaction - if you know what you are doing.

Your mix and match of parts may cause some compatibility issues.

First - the 4L60 and 4L80 used the same transmission control connector - it will need to be repinned and have a wire added - you will need the appropriate schematics as a guide.

Second - the 1999 to 2002 Gen III trucks used both Case Grounded and Isolate Grounded O2 sensors. The 2003+ trucks were homogenized to use all Isolate Grounded O2 sensors.

If the wiring harness is a pre-2003 variety, from a 4.8L or 5.3L - odds are all O2 are wired for Case Grounded sensors. If from a 6.0L, it could be wired for Isolate Grounded sensors upstream of the cats, and Case Grounded sensors downstream of the cats - or all Isolate Grounded sensors.

The PCM tune is different for each configuration - and is not changeable via tuning software - this is a hardware issue between the wiring harness and the tune.

You will also require appropriate schematics for this issue.

Also, 1999 to 2003 trucks used a return style fuel system, 2004+ moved to a returnless style system.

As you can see, it is always better to purchase a matching wiring harness and PCM as a set, or better still - a complete engine / transmission / wiring harness / PCM from the same donor vehicle.

[Wagonbacker9]

Thanks for the reply. When I started the swap, my intention was to use all 1999-2002 5.3l parts, I was mislead to believe my harness/PCM was from a 5.3 (until I read it into HPTuners, I had no idea it was different seeing as the PN is the same), and the only thing I have from the 2003 is the shortblock which should cause no compatibility issues as the reluctor is the same, and the cam sensor is the same. The O2 sensor harnesses have ground wires included and I got the Y pipe with the intake manifold, so there should be no compatibility issues there. Additionally I am not using rear O2s, so thats a non-issue for me.

Are all of the wiring colors on the transmission connector the same, and just in different locations on the 4l80e? If so I can just cut the 4l80e connector off, and splice on the 4l60e connector, and then extend and pin in the wire which needs to be added (I can research that separately if no one knows off-hand).

[Shrek]

People often attempt to keep costs down on a DIY project by not purchasing an OEM quality Service Manual - this is the FIRST thing you should purchase. The money you save on labour (by doing things yourself) comes at the small cost of requiring quality manuals as a resource.

To understand the point I was attempting to make regarding the O2 sensors will require looking at O2 schematics until the "light" comes on in your mind.

If the harness is from a 6.0L it will probably be wired (to the PCM connectors - or pinouts) for upstream (front) Isolate Ground O2 sensors - which a 5.3L tune will not properly operate.

Regarding the transmission connector - it is the same for the 4L60 and 4L80 - why cut it off - only to have corrosion susceptible connections as a result ?

The pins are easily removed - they are Micro 100W pins - the same as the PCM uses.

I would recommend obtaining the appropriate factory service manuals from Helm Inc.

[Wagonbacker9]

Research I have done indicates that ALL 1999 O2s use 4 wire case grounded O2s. Based on the info here: http://www.lt1swap.com/vortec_o2_sensors.htm, I do not have a splice in the Tan wires, so as far as O2s go I'm fine.

And it appears that the 2 connectors are not as different as I thought they'd be. Fairly simple modifications.

As for buying a manual, I see those days as being past, when things like the link above and attached images are readily available online.

While I appreciate the concern and input (wouldn't have even known about the O2 issue, so I dodged a bullet there), I came here looking for help on the tune I'm fairly confident that I can handle the hardware portion, its the tuning that I'm feeling uncomfortable with.

[Shrek]

Research I have done indicates that ALL 1999 O2s use 4 wire case grounded O2s. So seeing as my harness, PCM, and sensors all fit that criteria I should be set..

You thought you were purchasing a 5.3L / 4L60 harness - turns out its a 6.0L / 4L80 harness. Given this, I would confirm the PCM pinouts and O2 circuits - rather than making assumptions or guessing.

I have pointed you in the right direction ... the rest is up to you.

[Shrek]

As for buying a manual, I see those days as being past, when things like the link above and attached images are readily available online.

Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ... Brendan's website sees lot of traffic ... not everything you require is there ... not everything is accurate.

[Wagonbacker9]

You thought you were purchasing a 5.3L / 4L60 harness - turns out its a 6.0L / 4L80 harness. Given this, I would confirm the PCM pinouts and O2 circuits - rather than making assumptions or guessing.

I have pointed you in the right direction ... the rest is up to you.

I performed the work on the harness based on the assumption that it was a 5.3l harness (removal of rear O2s, tracing of front O2s etc). Seeing as I did not encounter anything outside of the expected, that confirms that they match, otherwise I would not have gotten this far without discovering the inconsistency. Coupling that with the presence of 4 pin flat connectors and direct connection of the tan wires on the front O2s as expected for case grounded sensors, I don't know what other validation I could seek. I appreciate your concern, but I have that covered.

As I said, I am confident I can handle the hardware aspect of this, and again, I thank you for your help, but I'm looking for help in the tune. If I were looking for help on the harness I would be posting elsewhere as there are places it would be more appropriate.

Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ... Brendan's website sees lot of traffic ... not everything you require is there ... not everything is accurate.

I don't rely on a single resource for anything I find off of the web. I have found the information there (though poorly organized) to be accurate in every way thus far. And you're correct, not everything I require is there, which is why I am here.

[Wagonbacker9]

Also, it appears you're wrong, there are 2 pins that need to be added to control the 4l60e, not 1.

I need to switch pin "S" to "U" on the trans connector, which is connected to #2 red on the PCM, then add a pin from #42 Red to "T" on the transmission, and #79 blue gets pinned into pin "S". I was expecting much worse, so I'd say thats totally livable, especially seeing I have a spare trans connector full of extra pins I can solder in.

So, back to the tuning issue I was originally asking about... anybody able to help?

Edit: From this thread: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26515, looks like I need a segment swap.
VCM ID: 2DG0FKC9913
Serv No: 09354896
HDW No: 16220610
OS ID is 9379910.. but I have no idea how to get a compatible 4l60e segment.

[Shrek]

... Also, it appears you're wrong, there are 2 pins that need to be added to control the 4l60e, not 1 ...

Answered your question from memory - AND referred you to the appropriate schematics - so Yes, you need to add 2 wires not 1 - point being you need to be prepared to add wiring.

4L60 and 4L80 use the same 20 pin female connector - with 10 pins in common. 4L60 uses 13 pins, 4L80 uses 11 pins.

I answer questions on this Forum and several others to help out those truly want to learn how to do their own work correctly.

You present with a know it all type attitude, despite obviously having never done an LSx swap before - this will only alienate those best able to answer your questions.

Good luck with your project ...

[Wagonbacker9]

I'm not questioning that you are being helpful, and I wasn't meaning it as a criticism or complaint, just making sure that the information is correct (so the next guy that searches and happens to come across this thread doesn't get it wrong), you're just not addressing the question I'm asking. I have spent lots of time on MANY forums over the course of the last decade or so, I have post counts ranging from none here, to well over 25K on a mazda forum where I am both a moderator and knowledgable member, since 2007, even though I haven't owned a mazda in 2 years. I know the things that I know, and I don't know the things that I don't, and I'm confident in the difference between the two. I appreciate the guidance here, but the attitude I present with here is one seeking knowlege on TUNING, and you are going off on tangents which do not answer the question I am trying to answer (again, not that I'm unappreciateive of being made aware of the potential 02 sensor issue, its just not my question). "Segment swap" would have done me a world of good seeing as coming up with that phrase would have put me miles ahead of where I was this morning. I do fully intend to learn how to do this, and correctly, but you seem hell bent on continuing to discuss oxygen sensors and wiring when I came to a tuning forum with a tuning question.
You are correct, I have not completed another LSX swap, and I know positiviely nothing about automatic transmissions as I have owned nearly exclusively manuals throught the course of my life, I have however done roughly 100 hours of research on this swap with all of its various intracacies. The only problem with that is that I did so under the assumption that I received what I had in fact purchased, so this was a curve ball I hadn't planned for. If you'd like to talk down at me for being cheap, by all means, I am. I'm doing a complete 5.3 swap into my old ass truck for under 3 grand, including the cam and stall. I'm not even going to complain about it, and I'll live with the added headaches and hours of research that it requires, but now that I've gotten more info from other resources, can anyone point me to a 4l60e segment for a 9379910 OS?