leaning out in higher rpm can some one look at my tune please? Might be fuel problem

[oakley6575]

its in there and not leaking i used black rtv and a small bolt and washer. its sealed and in there tight.

Where did you get your injector info from? all of the injector data I have seen the flow rate changes as the vacuume goes up. Yours is the same across the table.

Yes because I am running a return style fuel system that keeps the flow rate the same based on manifold vacuum. I know you are running a return style as well but you don't have a vacuum reference to keep the presure the same. So I don't know how you would set your data up.

[bigfatls6]

I can turn the maf back on and it will turn rpm fine doesn't lean out like in speed density.

[bigfatls6]

here is a log with it back in regular mode with the mass air back on.

What would keep the fueling from working right with the maf failed?
With the maf back on it does lean out up high but I would expect that with a 408 running a heads and cam stock ls1 tune. But I can't tune the ve table with it leaning out in speed density mode.

Could this be an issue with bad 02 sensors or is there any other sensor that would cause it to lean out in speed density with the maf failed?

[oakley6575]

You are playing with fire driving the car untuned like that. The only thing saving you are the 02's. Why are you driving it with a stock MAF curve...?

[bigfatls6]

You are playing with fire driving the car untuned like that. The only thing saving you are the 02's. Why are you driving it with a stock MAF curve...?

Yes I realize that but i need to find out why the fueling is so f--ed up in speed density. if my injector data was off it should be lean with the mass air on also right?
Once I figure out why the fueling is not responding to changes in the VE table I can tune it. So why would the fueling be right with the mass air back on and with it off its way out of wack? does it just use the 02's for fueling when the mass air is on? Should I just go ahead and tune the Mass air first and then go back to the ve table? Its not a stock maf curve either it was tuned for the old heads and cam motor tha twas in the car.

[oakley6575]

If you are going to keep the MAF then there is no reason to tune the VE over 2500rpms. After 2400rpms, the pcm only references your maf for fueling. So disable the ve, disable closed loop, dfco, ect. And tune the MAF correctly. I would add a set percent to the entire MAF curve before starting to cover the lean condition you will see.

[bigfatls6]

how would I tell if my map sensor is bad? If the map sensor was bad would it cause the issue Im having with leaning out in speed density?

[bigfatls6]

is it possible it the computer is still looking to the maf for fueling even though the MAF fail high is set to 0?

[Higgs Boson]

A 408 is .83749 in Cyl Vol. not .70821 as you have it.

set high rpm disable to 10,000
Hi/Lo RPM Thresh to 0.
maf fail at 0 hz

set
P0101
P0102
P0103
all to 2-No MIL Light and uncheck all three SES boxes.

Don't be afraid to go to 110 or so around 4K plus RPMs in your VE table.

Make certain your injector data is right first though. If that is wrong, everything will be wrong.

Have you used fuel trims to see what they are saying just in case something is wrong with your wideband, wiring, transfer function, etc?

[bigfatls6]

A 408 is .83749 in Cyl Vol. not .70821 as you have it.

set high rpm disable to 10,000
Hi/Lo RPM Thresh to 0.
maf fail at 0 hz

set
P0101
P0102
P0103
all to 2-No MIL Light and uncheck all three SES boxes.

Don't be afraid to go to 110 or so around 4K plus RPMs in your VE table.

Make certain your injector data is right first though. If that is wrong, everything will be wrong.

Have you used fuel trims to see what they are saying just in case something is wrong with your wideband, wiring, transfer function, etc?

No haven't used fuel trims but you can feel the motor lean out. I copied the fuel injector data from a a post that DSteck made with the info for ls3 injectors with an ls1 computer. not really sure any other way to set up the fuel injector info. i have stock ls3 injectors. It really acts like the computer is still trying to use the maf for fueling. I have the high fail set to 0 already.and I have the po103 set to 2-no mill light. after reading through a lot of threads today I was thinking about setting p0103 to 0 mill on first error. from everything I have read people say you need the computer to see the mill light or error from the mass air so it knows it is failed. Im pretty much open to any thing at this point. I have never had this issue before.

Thanks for the help guys I appreciate it i have been banging my head trying to get this damn car tuned.

[bigfatls6]

A 408 is .83749 in Cyl Vol. not .70821 as you have it.

set high rpm disable to 10,000
Hi/Lo RPM Thresh to 0.
maf fail at 0 hz

set
P0101
P0102
P0103
all to 2-No MIL Light and uncheck all three SES boxes.

Don't be afraid to go to 110 or so around 4K plus RPMs in your VE table.

Make certain your injector data is right first though. If that is wrong, everything will be wrong.

Have you used fuel trims to see what they are saying just in case something is wrong with your wideband, wiring, transfer function, etc?

set high rpm disable to 10,000 this is under dynamic airflow right?
Hi/Lo RPM Thresh to 0. This is under steady state in the dynamic airflow Right?

I also attached the file where I got my injector data from. My car has an aeromotive a1000 pump with a 6an return to the tank. the regulator is no vacuume refrenced not sure if this effects the injector data. I had a ls1 in this same car before with the same fuel system but with red top 30lb ford injectors and used the Banish injector info and those worked perfect no issues and didn't have any of these problems.

[bigfatls6]

the computer I am using is a 2002 fbody ls1 computer.

[Higgs Boson]

set it up like above and try it. if it is still lean, put like 200 in the lean cells and see if it does anything at all. if it doesn't, i'd say it is not your injector info.

[bigfatls6]

set it up like above and try it. if it is still lean, put like 200 in the lean cells and see if it does anything at all. if it doesn't, i'd say it is not your injector info.

I finally set the p0103 p0102 and p0101 codes to 0 mill on first error and unplugged the Maf all together just left the IAT part plugged in and it worked. I ended up adding 30% to the VE table from 3200-5200 rpm and did this data log. Im going to try to tune it from here as it is rich in some spots . Im having hell finding a trend in the cells it got hits in so I can populate the rest of the table.
I attached the tune file where I added the 30% so you can see the values in the VE table. I also attached the log file of a scan with the 30% added.
On another note the after I shut the car down with the maf unplugged it wouldn't start I had to plug the MAF back in and then it fired right back up. With the maf unplugged it woould just start and die wouldn't stay running even if you tried to use teh gas pedal to keep it running. shit is wierd I figured it would run no problem with out the MAF plugged in how do people that run S.D. all the time do it?

[Sam88gta1]

I finally set the p0103 p0102 and p0101 codes to 0 mill on first error and unplugged the Maf all together just left the IAT part plugged in and it worked. I ended up adding 30% to the VE table from 3200-5200 rpm and did this data log. Im going to try to tune it from here as it is rich in some spots . Im having hell finding a trend in the cells it got hits in so I can populate the rest of the table.
I attached the tune file where I added the 30% so you can see the values in the VE table. I also attached the log file of a scan with the 30% added.
On another note the after I shut the car down with the maf unplugged it wouldn't start I had to plug the MAF back in and then it fired right back up. With the maf unplugged it woould just start and die wouldn't stay running even if you tried to use teh gas pedal to keep it running. shit is wierd I figured it would run no problem with out the MAF plugged in how do people that run S.D. all the time do it?

No experienced SD tuner will give out info on this board. Email me and I will help you out. Im not going to post your fixed file on this board. If it were my car I would tune it to run SD 100% of the time. Leave the maf on the shelf.

[HoP]

Your injector flow rate vs kpa is incorrect for a return style setup.

[bigfatls6]

Your injector flow rate vs kpa is incorrect for a return style setup.

what do i need to do with the injectors for a return style fuel system? why deos the injector info change for a return style fuel system? If the pressure stays at 58 psi with a return and it stays at 58 psi with a returnless whats the difference? Im asking for the sole reason to learn. I search and read so much on here and get so many different answers to the same questions.

[Sam88gta1]

what do i need to do with the injectors for a return style fuel system? why deos the injector info change for a return style fuel system? If the pressure stays at 58 psi with a return and it stays at 58 psi with a returnless whats the difference? Im asking for the sole reason to learn. I search and read so much on here and get so many different answers to the same questions.

You get 20 answers from 20 people. Its easy for the new guys without real world experience to give their advice. Its completely turned the experienced guys away from this board. Its a f-ing mess here comapred to how it used to be. There is so much bad information its amazing. That is why I only log in and read the board once a month.
Your problem with fueling in PE has NOTHING to do with your IFR being set of return or returnless.

Btw I got your email.

[bigfatls6]

You get 20 answers from 20 people. Its easy for the new guys without real world experience to give their advice. Its completely turned the experienced guys away from this board. Its a f-ing mess here comapred to how it used to be. There is so much bad information its amazing. That is why I only log in and read the board once a month.
Your problem with fueling in PE has NOTHING to do with your IFR being set of return or returnless.

Btw I got your email.

Yea I know what your saying its hard to filter thru the good and bad info.

BTW do you still have that Bad Ass 5th gen camaro? I ended up getting the old ls3 Nova back I picked up from the old owner of your camaro. Got the nova running now just have a few clearance issues with the oil pan and steering drag link to fix and it will be on the road.