2010 Camaro - 408 cu.in - Procharged F1A

[Midnite Magic]

Trying to get this car tuned and would like everyones input on stuff I might be doing wrong.

2010 Camaro L99 - E38 PCM
- 6.0 Liter iron block - 408 cu.in - approx 9.5:1
- Ported LS3 heads
- Speed Inc blower camshaft 235/247 .624 on a 114+4 LSA
- Kooks 1 7/8" headers no cats
- Yank 3200 stall
- FAST 102mm intake & NW 102mm throttle body
- FAST 85 lb. injectors
- Procharger F1A (4.50" pulley)
- ZR1 MAP sensor
- 2 bar SD OS applied

No matter what I do I can't get the car to startup without pedal input. No matter how much I add to the "Airflow Final Min" Once the car is started it is rock solid and will come back down to idle from a blip of the pedal. I have the car in MAF open loop but I would like to get the idle situated before I tune the MAF table. Should I attempt to run the car blended with MAF & SD or just fail the MAF and do a complete SD tune? If so where is a good place to start with a VE table?

Also what is the correct way to deal with the P0300 (random cylinder misfire) at idle? This car has the knock sensors right near a boss on the block near the cylinder head rail very close to the headers so I am sure it is false P0300 at idle. Should I be adjusting the Knock Sensor Level -> Initial Level ? How about the table for misfire under the Engine diagnostic?

I also had a question about all the Open Loop Gains table? Adjust them all to 1.000 or leave them stock?

[edcmat-l1]

Random misfire has nothing to do with knock sensors. You need to modify the misfie tables.

Also, it appears your tune is tuner locked. Can't view it.

[Midnite Magic]

Random misfire has nothing to do with knock sensors. You need to modify the misfie tables.

Also, it appears your tune is tuner locked. Can't view it.

Information on modifying the misfire tables? I would rather do things the correct way instead of just blindly hacking away

[wyochimneysweep]

Misfire tables looked maxed out to me alrighty

[edcmat-l1]

Your misfire tables are maxed. It should not be setting a P0300 code.

Also, your base idle airflow is jacked. Something has to be wrong if you need to command that much air to make it idle.

Try this see if it starts better. It's possible the inj data is incorrect, which would cause cold starts issues too.

This is my freebie for the week.

Attachment 34800

[Midnite Magic]

Misfire tables looked maxed out to me alrighty

True was looking for input on the correct way or what everyone else does to cure the situation. Global 1.25, 1.5, 2x, 3x ???

[wyochimneysweep]

i think i did 10 percent increase till no more problems but mine was unlocking tcc not setting a code

[Midnite Magic]

Your misfire tables are maxed. It should not be setting a P0300 code.

Also, your base idle airflow is jacked. Something has to be wrong if you need to command that much air to make it idle.

Try this see if it starts better. It's possible the inj data is incorrect, which would cause cold starts issues too.

This is my freebie for the week.

Attachment 34800

Ed I appreciate it and have no problem putting in the time to learn correctly. I would rather learn on my own than be spoon feed anyways. It is not setting the P0300 code anymore, but I just don't want to randomly max out tables to get rid of the code unless that is the correct way to do it. I am sure the injector data isn't correct, but I couldn't find anything for FAST 85 lb injectors anywhere. I would've put ID or SD 80's but I didn't build the car. Is there a place to read online on how to tune the idle? I see there is no way to log idle like the earlier LS1 pcms

[Nodnarb]

Try this. I put some data in for those crappy injectors amongst other things.

[Midnite Magic]

Try this. I put some data in for those crappy injectors amongst other things.

Well the car is coming back tomorrow so I will get a chance to try it. I did a file comparison and didn't see any injector setting changed

I just have a few questions. If I have the dynamic turned off the 3 VE tables you added shouldn't matter correct?

Also does the cylinder volume have any effect on fueling. Like a multiplier in the main equation for VE. I see a lot of people never change it on bigger cubic inch engines

[Nodnarb]

I modified the post to include the proper one.

I'm not entirely sure about the VE tables but you never know. It's not hurting anything by being in there so I'd leave them in. The low load numbers may get you started but the the higher load numbers are completely arbitrary.

In this case the cylinder volume does not. The GMVE values have the cylinder volume baked in to them.

The injector values are also ASSuming you have a returnless fuel system running the factory 58 psi fuel pressure.

[Midnite Magic]

I modified the post to include the proper one.

I'm not entirely sure about the VE tables but you never know. It's not hurting anything by being in there so I'd leave them in. The low load numbers may get you started but the the higher load numbers are completely arbitrary.

In this case the cylinder volume does not. The GMVE values have the cylinder volume baked in to them.

The injector values are also ASSuming you have a returnless fuel system running the factory 58 psi fuel pressure.

Question about the IFR vs. Pressure Delta. I think on the FAST website they have it listed that the injectors are rated at stock 58 psi LS pressures. That is why I had the 59.2 psi injector size at 85.87 lb hr. The car is still returnless and still stock fuel pressure

[Nodnarb]

Thanks for catching that. The only FAST injectors I had ever worked with were rated at 3 bar, not 4.

So this one has the IFR adjusted accordingly.

[Midnite Magic]

Had a question about idle kpa and where I should try to idle the car RPM wise. If I idle the car at 850 rpms I get an idle kpa around 75-80 kpa (seems high to me). If I idle the car higher say 1000 rpms I can get the idle kpa around 65

[Midnite Magic]

Seems like I am chasing my tail down low at idle and low rpm cruising. The camshaft has 13° of overlap. I also have a lot of low rpm surge or pull through the converter at idle. I have the car in open loop right now and I am shooting for a 14.32 AFR

[Nodnarb]

Why do you insist on zeroing out the VE tables?

Try pushing your EOIT target back further for the lower RPM areas and reduce timing to help reduce the surge.

FYI, Your knock decay rate is ridiculously high.

[Midnite Magic]

Why do you insist on zeroing out the VE tables?

Try pushing your EOIT target back further for the lower RPM areas and reduce timing to help reduce the surge.

FYI, Your knock decay rate is ridiculously high.

I didn't zero out the VE tables, it just happens when you convert a file to 2 bar SD.

Please explain the EOIT and suggest some reading to figure it out correctly.
Also if you know a place to get help on idle tuning I am all ears. Right now I have the startup airflow cranked up so the vehicle starts without pedal input and I most likely have the min running airflow set too high. I understand the MAF tuning and VE tuning, but can't wrap my head around the idle tuning and I would like to have a handle on it. I know the fuel aspect has to be correct first

I should stick with the stock knock decay rate?

[Midnite Magic]

How is this on the VE table? Also is there any reason why I shouldn't just leave this car in MAF mode and not turn the dynamic back on??

[Midnite Magic]

Working on the idle a little bit. I was doing some reading on another forum and I zero'ed out the Proportional & Integral and reduced the % Max from 2.38 to 1.00 and adjusted the min airflow table to idle and not hang or stall, and also adjusted the startup airflow table so there is no pedal input required to start the vehicle. I was just doing global adjustments to the entire table, correct or no? I have the AFR a bit lean because for the camshaft overlap but the idle seems to oscillate. I know if I richen the idle mixture the oscillation seems to go away but I don't want it to idle fat. Could this be solved with some idle timing? How much idle variation can I expect from a camshaft like this one, + or - 50 rpm, 75 rpm, 100 rpm etc.

If I am happy with the min idle airflow table should I paste the OEM values back for the Proportional/Integral, Percent Max & Max Brake and should I adjust the Enable RPM Error step size

[Nodnarb]

Please explain the EOIT and suggest some reading to figure it out correctly.
Also if you know a place to get help on idle tuning I am all ears. Right now I have the startup airflow cranked up so the vehicle starts without pedal input and I most likely have the min running airflow set too high. I understand the MAF tuning and VE tuning, but can't wrap my head around the idle tuning and I would like to have a handle on it. I know the fuel aspect has to be correct first

I should stick with the stock knock decay rate?

These threads are GEN III related but it'll get your mind working in the right direction.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...highlight=eoit

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...highlight=eoit


With the GEN IV's you can change your EOIT based on rpm which is really nice.

You can increase your knock decay rates a little but nearly 15 times stock is nuts.



If it were me, I'd tune in SD first. I usually use fuel trims to rough in the low load areas just so things aren't way out of wack and then turn them off and hit the rest of it with a wideband. Once I get the VE table pretty close, I'll use a histogram that logs Dynamic Airflow overtop of the MAF curve to give me a rough outline. Then I'll go back and run it pure MAF with a wideband and get it dialed in.

For your Airflow Final Minimums, read this:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=85