Knock retards are killing my engine and heart!

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

Hi all, this is my first thread as I'm new to tuning and prefer searching for info not bother ppl for it !! but this time I need you HELP

My car is Saturn sky turbo (LNF)

I've purchased the 3 Par sensors and HPtuners and tuned the GMPP tune on my car. Knock retards are killing my engine, I have lot of them and can't get red of that . I've tried doing MAF calibration but it didn't do me much .

I never scanned my car before the GMPP upgrade so I don't know if i had this before or not. As you're aware I had to cut the old sensors plugs to get the new sensors on, so there is no way back to stock to check for KRs!

Attached is a scan after the last tune for the MAF calibration. any idea on the way forward ?!

BTW, I saw some threads that says I should start by making all the Spark Advance tables same then scan for KRs and subtract it from it. I really don't understand why I should make it all the same while the car maker didn't on both the stock tune and GMPP tune !

Thanks in advance

[ericemir]

Do you realize you are hitting near 30 psi from 3500 rpm to 4500 rpm??? I would flash the stock tune back in ASAP and follow the videos to make your own tune. Just my idea. Maybe post your tune so some people that know more can see if something is funky.

Good luck and I hope nothing permanent comes from this amount of KR.

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

Do you realize you are hitting near 30 psi from 3500 rpm to 4500 rpm??? I would flash the stock tune back in ASAP and follow the videos to make your own tune. Just my idea. Maybe post your tune so some people that know more can see if something is funky.

Good luck and I hope nothing permanent comes from this amount of KR.

Thanks ericemir for the reply, the boost reading in the cluster never showed more than 25 psi !!. Please find my tune file attached

[yoecotec]

Thanks ericemir for the reply, the boost reading in the cluster never showed more than 25 psi !!. Please find my tune file attached

Because you cluster can't show more than 25psi...

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

Because you cluster can't show more than 25psi...

ouch, is that normal on GMPP tune?!!

[ericemir]

I dont this this is the stock gmpp tune. Your DAL table is requesting up to 28PSI at certain spots and your wastegate duty cycle is wanting all of it. I really reccommend for you to return the tune to stock. then watch and rewatch the videos and read on the LNF tuning guide thread. Once you understand it you will understand what is going on. It is important that you learn whats going on. You will get the hang of it all trust me I did. I walked in here knowing very little and poeple are great to lend a hand.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Boost gauges from factory are only accurate to 24 psi. The can signal for values above that isn't accurate and just like you I've spooled 34psi thinking it was 25

[ericemir]

34PSI??? OUCH just reading that hurts me...

[ericemir]

and from experience. If you would like to save a visit to the dealer dont push the wastegate duty cycle chart over 75% on the right hand side of the chart. you will overheat the solenoid and you will burn it out. I just did this to my car. Save your self $70 lol.

[shabby]

Your afr is way too rich also, lean it out back to .087 like stock.
As for your knock you can try pulling some timing, however i would check for any leaks in your ic pipes first, also check if your intake is covered in oil.

[stromboli86]

Boost gauges from factory are only accurate to 24 psi. The can signal for values above that isn't accurate and just like you I've spooled 34psi thinking it was 25

Man, this made me think about my boost gauge and i realized i never even look at it!

Not sure what you guys are doing to nuke the wastegate solenoids but the only time my solenoid ever hits the far right column is initial spool up and i left it stock. At Wot my car uses the 2nd column(might be the only column i had to touch) from the right and it is high 70's to low 80's. Then again, maybe i drive like grandma!

As far as the tune im sure its been said but lower the DAL's, i would keep it at 255 until 3000rpm then ramp it slowly ending around 270... nothing crazy. Producing too much boost early can be a killer in many ways. I would also add the Boost Desired Duty Cycle% to your scanner table and log it. Then work on that wastegate table to get a nice flat boost curve. Oh, and lambda of .86 or so. Hope that helps!

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

You made my head goes 50 psi boost guys .

I see you point with regard to the boost. I definitely need to fix that.

I've tried more stock tune today with less boost and DAL but again I still have those KRs (less) !! (no need to say that i've lost lot of HP as well)

Any idea

attached is the tune file and scan

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

BTW, i went through the "KR Control and Ignition Advance" video on cobaltssoverbooster post. It amazingly could remove all the KRs on the old tune (attached is the tune and scan)

My question is: Is this a method is just a workaround for a problem that is still there and need to be fixed?
or is a real fix to the root cause of the issue (in this case it would be the advance spark timing) ?

Another question: are there any KR safe range for the LNF engines or It should be always 0 ?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

0 is money

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

I've calibrated my stock tune today (didn't remove 3 bar sensors).

Guess what ..... KRs are there even with the stock tune !!!

what should I doooooooo ?? and how much damage is this supposed to cause?!!

BTW, my car mileage is only 12500 !!

attached is my stock file and scan

HELP .. i don't know any place here that even knows what is Saturn !!

[ericemir]

I am no expert... but I see that your map sensor values are off. Do you have the 3 bar map sensors? or 2 bar map sensors?

here is a snap of what the 3 bar should be. flash the stock tune then just modify this table and see what happens.

[Mr.Uncontrollable]

I am no expert... but I see that your map sensor values are off. Do you have the 3 bar map sensors? or 2 bar map sensors?

here is a snap of what the 3 bar should be. flash the stock tune then just modify this table and see what happens.

If you mean the last file I posted, its my STOCK tune (without GMPP). I've calibrated the stock tune then scanned for KR's and yes it was there even with the stock tune ! (I didn't change anything on the stock file for this test)

Seems my issue is some how not really related to the tune even though it can be fixed with a tune !! i don't know .. just guessing .. any idea?

[ericemir]

what do you mean calibrated?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

did you get your car new? if no you need to look at the map sensor on the manifold and tell us if it has a 4 wire connector or not. the 4 wire is the 3bar sensor this way we can send you the correct sensor calibration values if you have them. if you dont have the 3bar sensors then that tune has the correct map sensor calibration values.
and yes the reduced timing usually fixes the kr but if its all over the place you may have other probelems. you should be able to run the stock ignition tables with little kr.

[Iam Broke]

The 3 bar sensors have a Bosch label on them, the 2.5 bar stock ones do not.