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Thread: LNF Cam adjustment

  1. #21
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    cams shouldnt hit anything.....i believe the hit point with factory cams is beyond the maximum limit of the scanners capability.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  2. #22
    Advanced Tuner
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    Thanks Christian, I appreciate the acknowledgment of my frustration! It is frustrating for me because I like to teach, it's what I do in just about every facet of my life. I'll get over it, like I said, I just needed to vent a little bit!

    So on the danger of causing damage by putting the wrong numbers in the cam tables, don't worry about it. As long as the changes aren't radical between the cells, there's nothing you can really do to cause any damage. Think about it this way, the actuators and solenoid valves fail. GM realizes that those parts can and will fail, so they engineered the vvt system so that if any of those parts fail, in any position, the motor itself will be ok. It would be pretty bad if something as simple as a cam solenoid valve sticking, or a shorted wire, or an ECM failure would make the valves hit the pistons and wipe out the engine. I've never seen an Ecotec motor that the valves hit the pistons, unless of course they come apart and fall in!

    On the config question, here's some screen shots of my settings. Let me know if you have any questions or still can't get them to work. I'm happy to see you're using my config file, I spent a lot of time getting it laid out nicely with the parameters that really need to be seen most of the time. Simple things like the scaling of the readings makes a big difference in seeing problems or not seeing them. Some things might look odd in my config, but there might be a good reason for it. Or I just f'd up and didn't realize it, which is entirely possible! I do have several other configs when I need to look at KR on each cyl, etc.

    Oh and btw, I hope this forum NEVER ends up like the Cobalt forum! As far as I'm concerned that forum is completely dysfunctional when it comes to accurate and factual information. The off-topic parts of the site are pretty humorous though! Sorry if what I posted came off a little like what goes on that forum, sometimes I speak my mind a little TOO much! If anything I say sounds like it should be on that forum, PLEASE let me know. I really like this forum, it's been a good place to learn about tuning, that's for sure. It's full of guys like Tom, (Iambroke) that devote hours and hours of his time carefully testing something like using Ethanol in an LNF, and posts everything he can to help others learn from his efforts. That's what it's all about.

    BTW, all my drama over on that forum brought a bunch of guys over here looking to see what they can learn. I can tell from my photobucket linked images on my forum threads, it shows what website the views came from and when they were viewed. Let me tell you, those guys all talked cr#p about me, but dozens of them came over here to read everything I've posted! lol. Silly kids. Enough about the Cobalt forum, I won't mention it again. This is a no drama zone.

    Lemme know if these don't work for you...







  3. #23
    Excellent information!!! Thank you very very much!!!

    Im working on a tune now using this stuff I'll let yall know what I find out.

    --Christian

  4. #24
    GMtech, not gonna lie... Im a fan of yours, no homo! You might have some of the longest posts iv ever seen on a forum but i read them to the end because i want to learn as much as possible!

    That being said, i wish i had the time or mental focus to contribute more to these forums. Iv only ever tuned my car, havent even linked up to any other cars. I will say im using a form of someones cam tables posted a while back but i dont remember whose they were... i smoothed a lot of the numbers out and toyed with the cruising cells a little bit with a little success. 93 octane, 65% highway 35% stop and go crap, my last fill up(filled to the brim) was 310miles and 10.25gallons so 30.2mpg!! Take that EPA ratings

  5. #25
    gmtech

    Could you post the Parameters for field 5 (LT+ST Fuel Trim) and 6 (STK MAPS), please?

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    nobody on the css forum realizes that some of the tunes they get shifts the camshafs at wot and thus changes the gap distance between some of the cells.

    as stated my gmtech the distance of the cells needs to not be drastic. if they are enlarged when the cam shift from one cell to the other (especially at high rpm) you risk the chance of rapid cam shift. this shift can seperate the lobe from the rocker, not by much but enough to when it comes into contact again it can 1) hit so hard it snaps the rocker in half or snaps the valve tip off dropping the valve into the cylinder. (havent seen the tip get lost in the lnf's yet but i have in a bmw) or 2) the rocker will touch the cam and while the load is light the cam will throw the rocker out from under the cam, also known as rocker ejection. so do keep that in mind we would all hate to see another person feeling the hurt from valvetrain failure.

    im not saying the other factors dont apply but simply stating we have a new factor we have to keep track of.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  7. #27
    The idle cam changes I'm making dont seem to be changing anything at all.

    I set intake to 20 and exhaust to -12 in all the fields and I'm still scanning -10 and -6.

    I did a write cal and a write all with no effect on either.

    Any ideas?

  8. #28
    do you mean +10intake and -6exhaust on the scanner?

  9. #29
    mo I mean in the scanner at idle im seeing -10 intake and -6 exhaust at idle regardless of what I change the cam idle values to.

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    if its not working return the values to stock or what you had before and try modifying the main tables. i will sit down tomorrow and try to help you figure out which table will cause the affects you are looking for.

    gmtech or any other original cam tester- its been a while since ive touched cams because im replacing my fully ported head disaster for a factory setup again so i have put that portion of tuning on the side burner for now. do you mind refreshing me on the direction the cams move for the value shifts in the editor....just so i can help find info on this to post. example: if i move positive or negative in editor am i retarding or advancing actual.

    EDIT:
    i took 1 hr to search through old posts and found cam angle in overlap was (I+E)/20 and negative numbers are advancing cams while positive are retarding....correct still?
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 03-24-2012 at 11:52 PM.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CDNITE View Post
    mo I mean in the scanner at idle im seeing -10 intake and -6 exhaust at idle regardless of what I change the cam idle values to.
    If you could post a screen shot or picture of the tables we could take a look, do you use a PID in the scanner to adjust intake and exhaust values to match the values in the cam tables? Meaning you subtract 10 from intake and add 6 to exhaust

    If you do those numbers match up with the stock Intake idle cam cold table and Exhaust idle cam cold. Did you get the car up to operating temperature?

  12. #32
    I use gmtech's .cfg file with compensated PIDs for intake and exhaust.

    No matter what table I change or how much I change it the idle is always at -10 and -6.

    I have a bunch of different cam tables Ill log then post today.

  13. #33
    Advanced Tuner Gimpster's Avatar
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    gmtech,

    I wanted to relate some personal life experiences with the cam table copy stuff you posted earlier. For quite a few years I participated heavily in reverse engineering Honda and Mitsubishi OBDI ECU's. A large number of the discoveries the "team" made (including some myself) ended up in commercial tuning packages. Like not one-off tunes, but entire software packages meant to be sold for profit.

    You have to either feel imitaton is the greatest form of flattery, or just not post the information. I don't know if you yourself are in the tuning business, but I wasn't. I had a day job, and it wasn't tuning cars.

    I guess what I'm saying is, thats the price of "freedom of information". For as many people who screw you, if we're all open and honest more people benefit from the exchange of information. I say that as someone who doesn't own an LNF anymore, and likely never will If you or anyone else isn't willing to pay that price, you'd never get hard feelings from me.

    The one thing I realize looking back almost 8 years now, none of it even matters anymore. Car platforms come and they go, and the Cobalt in particular doesn't have a long shelf life.

  14. #34
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    what is happening is you forgot to establish your pids in the table primary so they can actually be read by the scanner, thus making the sensor default to always 0 and for intake and exhaust the scanner subtracts the compensation number of 10 and 6 giving you -10 intake and -6 exhaust. THIS IS DEFINATELY YOUR PROBLEM.....

    [pid 2178]-6 correct but if said sensor is not being read it is calculated as this......
    [0]-6 =-6 in every cell
    &
    [pid 2172]-10 would be
    [0]-10 =-10 in every cell
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 03-25-2012 at 12:05 PM.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    what is happening is you forgot to establish your pids in the table primary so they can actually be read by the scanner, thus making the sensor default to always 0 and for intake and exhaust the scanner subtracts the compensation number of 10 and 6 giving you -10 intake and -6 exhaust. THIS IS DEFINATELY YOUR PROBLEM.....

    [pid 2178]-6 correct but if said sensor is not being read it is calculated as this......
    [0]-6 =-6 in every cell
    &
    [pid 2172]-10 would be
    [0]-10 =-10 in every cell
    That would make sense if the values didnt change during driving, but they do it seems to read/ follow my cam tables/parameters just not the idle tables/parameters.

    I just finish the logs with 4 different cam tables Im posting now.

    --Christian

  16. #36
    This was my process:

    1. Design 4 cam tables with all other parameters the same. A. GMPP/Stock, B. Canned Tune(I wont say who's), C. gmtech's, and D. my own crazy idea.

    2. Load the tunes and record logs of 3 pulls from 2k -6k rpm, two in third one in forth. (this was a little tricky with traffic but its pretty close)

    3. Compare logs and learn... this isn't happening... they seem all very similar and felt nearly the same.

    here are screen shots of the results and the parameters in order A-D.

    --Christian

  17. #37
    A. GMPP/Stock Tune:


  18. #38
    B. Canned Tune:

  19. #39
    C. gmtech Tune:

  20. #40
    D. crazy Tune:

    Last edited by CDNITE; 03-25-2012 at 01:25 PM.