ZR1 - Stock Injectors Limit

[vette_c6]

well then ,, lets see how much will i get from the 441 with 300 shot nitrous ,, few days for the dyno

[4evervette]

+21hp / + 18 NM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLwqRab97So

nice ...

[Brice]

i am still waiting for STOCK files ,, and after adding extra boost ,,, the most think that i would like to see
is under TQ mang supercharge

Supercharger -> Boost disable ->
Map disable : 256
Map enable : 246

I've got a ligenfelter tune under my eyes : very disapointing. MAF only tune, some idle stuff, PE hack and stock high octane table.

The only thing I can get is that they modify the fuel pressure module parameter :
they lowered
-the low flow upper from 119 to 79
-the low flow lower from 79 to 49

[Brice]

wait ....

The ZR1 is FPCM equiped.
I can play with fuel pressure so ... with injectors capacity ...

No needs for bigger injectors ...


Has someone experience with FPCM ?

[vette_c6]

you are totally right man ,, ,about that fuel business ,, i guess i'll ask a few experience guys ,, i'll give one of them a phone call ,, and after i have the update ,, i will update u cheers mate thanks

[Brice]

the ZR1 has an interresting table on injectors parameters :
Injectors Flow Rate vs Pressure Delta...

[vette_c6]

the ZR1 has an interresting table on injectors parameters :
Injectors Flow Rate vs Pressure Delta...

dude ,, i loved u and i added u in the hp forum
heheheh if you need any help ,, u can always pvt msg me ,, i will do my best to help good luck ,, and keep us updates

[RWTD]

Yes, the factory ZR1 runs 6-bar (87 psi) at full flow, which is also the limit of the system (has a built-in pressure regulator that does not allow higher). Remember, the higher the pressure you run the more the pump you use.

On modded ZR1's at 650 rwhp and above (Actual, not Corrected), I use Siemens 60# shorty injectors (flowmatched only, along with Greg Banish's injector data), then lower pressure from factory to 4.5 bar (65 psi, what the CTS-V runs), which allows for enough injector and pump beyond 700 rwhp (again, Actual). Raise pressure accordingly to achieve greater numbers, but be wary of the factory pump maximum (add a BAP, as needed).

Now, keep in mind, the fuel system is not boost referenced (not a 1 to 1 system), so I'd suggest not lowering pressure below 65 psi, otherwise the injectors will become too small to support the added power as the boost is raised. The 60s will support around 725 rwhp (Actual) on a boost-referenced 3-bar (39.5 psi) system (ie 03-04 Ford Cobra). So on a GM with the non-referenced ERFS (electronic returnless fuel system) subtract boost from actual fuel pressure to get the pressure drop across the rail (ie 65psi - 15# = 50 psi). You can log this, FYI (it's inferred).

[Brice]

Thanks for the information!

[vette_c6]

Yes, the factory ZR1 runs 6-bar (88 psi) at full flow, which is also the limit of the system (has a built-in pressure regulator that does not allow higher). Remember, the higher the pressure you run the more the pump you use.

On modded ZR1's at 650 rwhp and above (Actual, not Corrected), I use Siemens 60# shorty injectors (flowmatched only, along with Greg Banish's injector data), then lower pressure from factory to 4.5 bar (65 psi, what the CTS-V runs), which allows for enough injector and pump beyond 700 rwhp (again, Actual). Raise pressure accordingly to achieve greater numbers, but be wary of the factory pump maximum (add a BAP, as needed).

Now, keep in mind, the fuel system is not boost referenced (not a 1 to 1 system), so I'd suggest not lowering pressure below 65 psi, otherwise the injectors will become too small to support the added power as the boost is raised. The 60s will support around 725 rwhp (Actual) on a boost-referenced 3-bar (39.5 psi) system (ie 03-04 Ford Cobra). So on a GM with the non-referenced ERFS (electronic returnless fuel system) subtract boost from actual fuel pressure to get the pressure drop across the rail (ie 65psi - 15# = 50 psi). You can log this, FYI (it's inferred).

thanks for the good info ,,
if you dont mind correcting me if i am wrong
tuning a ZR1 with pully and headers with exhust and cam
to reach 700 RWHP

need 60 fuel injectors with data ,,
make sure the fuel pressure not below 65,, because with 15 psi , it will drop down to 50 psi
tune the car and enjoy life ,,

the pic below , shows that the ZR1 injectors are lower then 60 so by getting 60 we are having a bigger injectors
so it does make sense like that


as a car come ZR1
the only thing that i have to ask the customer to get ,, is the fuel injectors 60 with the data ?
or there is something else ?

the fuel pressure
i havent looked at a ZR1 engine yet
so do i ask only for a gague fuel pressure , ? and have a look at it ?
and it will be around 60 ?
or i have to get a Fuel Regulator to play with the fuel pressure ?

i will be very greatfull if you tell the step by step how to do it ,, from a bone STOCK zr1 to pulley changed + full exhuast system + injectors + Camshaft
what is the step by step job

i am not asking for teaching me how to tune ,, but i need to have the step by step job
the tuning part is easy ,, the preparing part for the car is weird and new for me ,,
because usally when i tune a Forced induction car ,, it already comes with fuel system + injector ,, and fuel reg 1+1 with boost

but this car ! is a new issue for me ,,
thanks

[Brice]

As 88 psi is the limit.

stock : PE tune only (my experience)
Pulley : boost limit tune + classic tune
H/c/pulley > 650 rwhp change injectors (rwtd)

To be continued...

[vette_c6]

As 88 psi is the limit.

stock : PE tune only (my experience)
Pulley : boost limit tune + classic tune
H/c/pulley > 650 rwhp change injectors (rwtd)

To be continued...

waiting for your further update ,, i had a strange issue today with GMC Sierra 2012 i am talking to billl in the email ,, he is helping after finishing i will upload all the subject ,,,

waiting for your update guys

[DSteck]

Yes, the factory ZR1 runs 6-bar (88 psi) at full flow, which is also the limit of the system (has a built-in pressure regulator that does not allow higher). Remember, the higher the pressure you run the more the pump you use.

On modded ZR1's at 650 rwhp and above (Actual, not Corrected), I use Siemens 60# shorty injectors (flowmatched only, along with Greg Banish's injector data), then lower pressure from factory to 4.5 bar (65 psi, what the CTS-V runs), which allows for enough injector and pump beyond 700 rwhp (again, Actual). Raise pressure accordingly to achieve greater numbers, but be wary of the factory pump maximum (add a BAP, as needed).

Now, keep in mind, the fuel system is not boost referenced (not a 1 to 1 system), so I'd suggest not lowering pressure below 65 psi, otherwise the injectors will become too small to support the added power as the boost is raised. The 60s will support around 725 rwhp (Actual) on a boost-referenced 3-bar (39.5 psi) system (ie 03-04 Ford Cobra). So on a GM with the non-referenced ERFS (electronic returnless fuel system) subtract boost from actual fuel pressure to get the pressure drop across the rail (ie 65psi - 15# = 50 psi). You can log this, FYI (it's inferred).

Or... run ID850s, enjoy better idle quality, and huge amounts of flow that allow the factory pump to run at a lower pressure thus increasing fuel flow rate out of the pump, eliminating the need for a BAP. Win win.

[Slow Sedan]

Yes, the factory ZR1 runs 6-bar (88 psi) at full flow, which is also the limit of the system (has a built-in pressure regulator that does not allow higher). Remember, the higher the pressure you run the more the pump you use.

On modded ZR1's at 650 rwhp and above (Actual, not Corrected), I use Siemens 60# shorty injectors (flowmatched only, along with Greg Banish's injector data), then lower pressure from factory to 4.5 bar (65 psi, what the CTS-V runs), which allows for enough injector and pump beyond 700 rwhp (again, Actual). Raise pressure accordingly to achieve greater numbers, but be wary of the factory pump maximum (add a BAP, as needed).

Now, keep in mind, the fuel system is not boost referenced (not a 1 to 1 system), so I'd suggest not lowering pressure below 65 psi, otherwise the injectors will become too small to support the added power as the boost is raised. The 60s will support around 725 rwhp (Actual) on a boost-referenced 3-bar (39.5 psi) system (ie 03-04 Ford Cobra). So on a GM with the non-referenced ERFS (electronic returnless fuel system) subtract boost from actual fuel pressure to get the pressure drop across the rail (ie 65psi - 15# = 50 psi). You can log this, FYI (it's inferred).

Pretty close to what I found today... hit 655whp at 116IDC at 70-72PSI at the rail. Time for more injector!

[Brice]

The answer is 116% Duty cylce

[RWTD]

Old thread, I know, but I did have enough fuel pump and fuel injector (was using the Siemens shorty 60s back then) to make 750 rwhp Actual on a 2010 ZR1 with E85 (this was approx 2 years ago now)! This was even using the factory 87 psi limit. Impressive factory pump, for sure! IDC was 105% (oops) at redline (6800), Inj Delta Pressure was 58.x, and Injector Flow Rate of 78.x#. I had him shift at 6400, where he was under 100% IDC. I should have played with the Fuel System Minimum Voltage. On pump gas (E10), the numbers were IDC 66% at redline (6800), Inj Delta Pressure was 72.x, and Injector Flow Rate of 87.x#.

As for what Dsteck stated about using ID injectors, I couldn't agree with him more. The SD shorty 60s do work nice with Banish's data, however, but I prefer the IDs. Sometimes it's hard to convince the customer to spend double on the injectors, unfortunately.

[DSteck]

As for what Dsteck stated about using ID injectors, I couldn't agree with him more. The SD shorty 60s do work nice with Banish's data, however, but I prefer the IDs. Sometimes it's hard to convince the customer to spend double on the injectors, unfortunately.

I deal with this a lot (people not wanting to spend the money). I'm lucky enough to be in a position to just say if they can't do it right, then they need to go elsewhere for a tune. It's no skin off my back... just means another night I can actually spend at home tinkering in my mad scientist lab. Lol.

[SAM_69]

tinkering in my mad scientist lab. Lol.

wich i wanna visit

good discussion keep it on guys

[Brice]

I've put the Siemens 60 (Greg Bannish Data) on it and the the Cadillac CTS-V FPCM values , worked fine ;-)

[Brice]

Rwtd, just a question about your Fuel Pressure parameter : do you modify only the normal and high flow pressure to 65 or keep all the parameter from the cts-v.
I'm currently working on the ZR1 (we changed the pulley).
I tune the MAF on the dyno (not wot) on low pressure (1500 to 8000 hz) : 50 PSI as CTS setting
When I got wot and go high flow, the afr error is richer than on the low flow.
I'm uqing greg bannish datas.

Why not keep 65 PSI all the way ? (low,normal, full).
I think deal with a constant pump pressure will simplify the tune (as a regular tune).
What do you think about that ? (just thinking about it burning the midnight oïl)