Found another awesome E85 study...

[gmtech16450yz]

Not sure if this one has been posted yet, but there's some good info in it that's for sure. 23 pages of lot's of tech-geek-engineer talk but if you take the time to sift through it all there's some useful stuff for us tuners. This one little tidbit was my favorite, in the LNF (Turbo Ecotec) world I've been telling guys for a long time now that it's not worth going full E85 in our cars. Here's what they say...

"For fuel blends above E20 the maximum torque curve was not significantly limited. E20 can provide 97% of the peak torque of E85."

Here's the link to the pdf...

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2011-01-0900.pdf

Happy reading and I'll be waiting for everyone's testing and findings on their own cars! I've been on E47 in both of our LNF cars for a year and a half or so and have had great results.

(I'm gonna post this in the V/8 section too, not sure if that's considered double posting? We don't have a "general" tuning section here do we?)

[stromboli86]

I wish there was an E pump near where i live so i could enjoy it! It was about 4 years ago i was up in michigan with my 86 buick t-type, getting ready to go to the track and pulled into a station with E85... I figured why the heck not, added 4.5 gallons of E to my 18 gallon tank, added a little fuel to my tune up top and let her rip! Ran my fastest trap speeds(3mph higher) and times ever, and that was with no knock whatsoever all day... that never happens with that car!

[Iam Broke]

Lots of info in that article, thanks GMT.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

thats a dope as fu** cam system. lnf valvetrain with v-tec hot damn! no wonder they are getting good power they have lift control and valve profile shift control. not to mention being that its delphi they probably have a fully programmable ecu in their hands which is most definately not our case. butstill no complaints here, im happy with my power.

[Ch1ck3n]

This is a brilliant article.. All these acronyms are killing me though.

The use of a duel fuel system with gasoline Port Fuel
Injection (PFI) and DI E85 has demonstrated the ability to
leverage E85 for high load efficient operation while
providing increased efficiency with gasoline at low loads

Looks like ZZP's got it right with their 5th injector. Although I think they are referring more to the Ford Bobcat Engine.

[Iam Broke]

Work in a refinery sometime...acronym hell.

[Ch1ck3n]

Work in a refinery sometime...acronym hell.

I'll be there soon enough as an inspector with the Coast Guard

[gmtech16450yz]

This is a brilliant article.. All these acronyms are killing me though.



Looks like ZZP's got it right with their 5th injector. Although I think they are referring more to the Ford Bobcat Engine.

5th injector setups are a good way to get needed fuel to the LNF's, but ZZP's kit has a huge design flaw that so far no one has mentioned or realized.

[383_Stroker]

5th injector setups are a good way to get needed fuel to the LNF's, but ZZP's kit has a huge design flaw that so far no one has mentioned or realized.

Care to elaborate?

[Iam Broke]

IDK if it has a check valve or not...never saw the setup.

[gmtech16450yz]

Care to elaborate?

Do a Google image search on "zzp 5th injector" and you'll find pictures. The problem seemed painfully obvious to me when i first saw the kit, but I guess it wasn't obvious to zzp. Or they knew and just don't really care if their products work properly.

This isn't the first zzp product issue I've had, if I go further with this subject I won't do it here. It's not really the place to be discussing this, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it but oh well. I don't believe in keeping things quiet though, it only hurts the others that are buying products without knowing that may or may not work properly. After all, that's the beauty of the internet and these forums, so we can make (somewhat) informed decisions based on others experiences.

[383_Stroker]

i don't particularly enjoy where it's into evap port and the wall of the intake.... but, perhaps i'm missing something else?..lol

[Ch1ck3n]

I don't particularly like the lack of a failsafe.

[383_Stroker]

My Experience dropping from E47 to E29...

E47 - No Knock... ever
E29 - 6* Knock, replicated twice in two pulls and decided to stop the abuse..lol

06 SS/SC -TVS w/ 75mm Pulley

[Iam Broke]

E47 is the sweet spot on the LNF.

[Matt M]

Do a Google image search on "zzp 5th injector" and you'll find pictures. The problem seemed painfully obvious to me when i first saw the kit, but I guess it wasn't obvious to zzp. Or they knew and just don't really care if their products work properly.

This isn't the first zzp product issue I've had, if I go further with this subject I won't do it here. It's not really the place to be discussing this, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it but oh well. I don't believe in keeping things quiet though, it only hurts the others that are buying products without knowing that may or may not work properly. After all, that's the beauty of the internet and these forums, so we can make (somewhat) informed decisions based on others experiences.

Hi John. Maybe you need to tell the people that have been running our kit successfully for nearly a year that it doesn't work. I understand why you think the fuel would puddle, but that would only happen if the 5th injector was spraying under low airflow conditions. We tested this extensively. If you want to discuss it, feel free to email me.

[Matt M]

i don't particularly enjoy where it's into evap port and the wall of the intake.... but, perhaps i'm missing something else?..lol

The hole comes out directly across the center of the intake at the throttle body mount. It is the best place on the intake to add a single injector.

[gmtech16450yz]

Hi John. Maybe you need to tell the people that have been running our kit successfully for nearly a year that it doesn't work. I understand why you think the fuel would puddle, but that would only happen if the 5th injector was spraying under low airflow conditions. We tested this extensively. If you want to discuss it, feel free to email me.

This forum is for people using HPTuners to share information and learn from each other by doing so. There is NO tolerance for "Chaos and Drama" on this forum, so do not come on here to start it, which quite obviously is the ONLY reason you've posted here.

These are not kids, this forum is made up of responsible adults and professionals. This is MY thread, sharing useful information that I found, so others can benefit and learn also. Your total of 7 posts in the 3 years you have been on here have shown you are not interested in learning OR sharing tuning information. You are not welcome in my thread, and most likely would not be welcome in anyone else's either, so I'm asking you nicely to please leave.

[Matt M]

This forum is for people using HPTuners to share information and learn from each other by doing so. There is NO tolerance for "Chaos and Drama" on this forum, so do not come on here to start it, which quite obviously is the ONLY reason you've posted here.

These are not kids, this forum is made up of responsible adults and professionals. This is MY thread, sharing useful information that I found, so others can benefit and learn also. Your total of 7 posts in the 3 years you have been on here have shown you are not interested in learning OR sharing tuning information. You are not welcome in my thread, and most likely would not be welcome in anyone else's either, so I'm asking you nicely to please leave.

Sorry, John, but you know that I will not simply leave after you claimed that our product has a serious flaw. I offered to discuss the product with you. There is no hostility or drama required. If you want to discuss it, feel free.

[383_Stroker]

The hole comes out directly across the center of the intake at the throttle body mount. It is the best place on the intake to add a single injector.

I've not examined one in person, I was just taking a stab at the possible issue with the set-up. lol