Experienced eyes needed... This is my first tune

[AJohn6]

OK, I have spent quite some time researching and studying how to tune a vehicle. My truck is a '00 Silverado, with a 6.0/4L60E combo. It has factory everything and I just wanted a stock 6.0 tune put in it since it had a 5.3. I had it tuned about a year ago in a local shop here and needless to say they did not impress me. It ran pretty bad and I just got tired of it so I got this software and decided to give it a shot myself.

So I started by finding a stock 6.0 tune and found out that the tuner changed very little from the 5.3 tune. So I put all the same parameters and pretty had to change 70% of the tables. After that the truck ran great, idles nice, drives great. I want a bit more power, so after more research I found how to adjust the tranny, VE, and MAF tables.

I would greatly appreciate it if some of the great minds on here can double check my work and maybe give me some pointers on where to go from here. I would really like to start working on the spark tables but am a little cloudy on how to approach it.

Also, I do have a NGK Powerdex WB 02


Thank you in advance,
Adam

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I think the VE may need some more tweaking, some high values in light load areas may be false rich conditions. I would then enable the MAF again and work on that (fail frequency is still set to 14 Hz). For the timing, just starting with smoothing the table out can help a lot. From there you will have to play with it to determine the best curve for your application. Also keep in mind if you tow at all, you just have to be careful you have enough fuel in there and not too much timing to cause knock. I would also remove some PIDs from your table in the scanner to get a faster sample rate. You are quite rich in that log at WOT. You may also want to set your PE thersholds lower so it comes active sooner. As you get the timing table dialed in some areas may want this fuel at higher loads.

[AJohn6]

I think the VE may need some more tweaking, some high values in light load areas may be false rich conditions. I would then enable the MAF again and work on that (fail frequency is still set to 14 Hz). For the timing, just starting with smoothing the table out can help a lot. From there you will have to play with it to determine the best curve for your application. Also keep in mind if you tow at all, you just have to be careful you have enough fuel in there and not too much timing to cause knock. I would also remove some PIDs from your table in the scanner to get a faster sample rate. You are quite rich in that log at WOT. You may also want to set your PE thersholds lower so it comes active sooner. As you get the timing table dialed in some areas may want this fuel at higher loads.

Thanks WS6,

This is exactly the feedback I am looking for. I see what you are saying now about the VE being high. A question though? When you are talking about the MAF you make a point about the fail frequency still set to 14Hz, is that wrong? I haven't read much about that part.

I know this is an incredibly newb question but how can you tell from the scan that at WOT it is running rich? This is really what I am wanting to learn, the finer points of tuning.

When I am scanning how do I find out what my sample rate is?

Oh and by the way it's most of your stickies that have helped me come this far, thank you. Concord is only about an hour forty-five from here, more help like this and I am going to owe you some beer.

Again, Thanks

Adam

[AJohn6]

MAN!!!

I could scream right now. So I was out in the garage working on the truck and had to remove the NGK Wideand 02 sensor. Everything was going fine until I got the sensor about half way out and it seized up on me.

I followed all the install instructions, drilled hole, welded bung, ran a M18x1.5 tap through it, put anti-seize on threads, screwed in nice and easy like it should, torqued to 20 ft-lbs. I thought I was good.

The dang thing locked up so bad and wouldn't budge a 1/16th of a turn. I tried to get it out without damaging but failed miserably. Half the dang threads are missing now and the bung is completely ruined. Why? Why does this have to happen? At least Advance Auto has a replacement for it but it's $138. Man I just got it this week and already replacing. Now I have to somehow cut out or fill in the old one and weld in a new one.

In the words of my Father "That's why we can't have nice sh**"

Sorry, I had to vent

Adam

[oakley6575]

In the words of my Father "That's why we can't have nice sh**"

That's funny! "Shit happens"

Good luck on the next one

[rfrankb4]

sounds like it is time for some JB weld around the old one. Push that problem down the road:P

That way you can mess with a new bung and O2 when you have time.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

With the fail frequency being set to 14 Hz it will fail the MAF out. That is fine for VE tuning but to finish it off and do the MAF you will have to enter the stock value in there (12,500.....13,000......14,000 - whatever it may be).

It you look at your WB vs. your commanded fueling, it is running low 11:1 range and you are commanding around 13:1. After you mess around (and fixed the damned WB ) and make some more changes, post back up.

[AJohn6]

Well, today has been a handful. I cut the cats out, welded up the old bung, welded in a new one, going to tighten everything together and snapped an exhaust manifold stud where the "Y" pipe attaches. Oh well, what can you do? Drill it out and run a new bolt through it, at least thats what I plan on doing.

I see what you were saying about the MAF High fail, typo when inputing. I think it should have been 14,000Hz. Guess I should have triple checked everything (Oh, the files are in the computer). I love this stuff.

Thanks for the help guys,

Adam

[AJohn6]

Here we go...

Round 2....

Please let me know what you guys think.

Also, I am having some problems with the shift time from 2-3. I haven't really messed with it and it takes 3 times as long to shift then the other gears. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Adam

[gn2beatu]

Your 2-3 shift speed is set too slow. You have your settings for shifting too long in all gearts. Most people shift at .250 to .100 based on foot lbs. I have mine set .150 til about 250 ft lbs, and .100 after that. So tighten it up and stop all that slipping.

Also bump your PE enrichment to 1.175 that should get you to about 12.4 - 12.5

Your VE table looks like a mountain range. It should be a slope up, then down after 4800-5200. Yours is all over the place. Start over with the stock VE. And stop making adjustments to the 15-35 kpa area in the midrange. Your basing that off deceleration most likely. If your ever light cruising in 1st or 2nd gear waiting to stab it, your goona be lean in the low kpa areas. Your also getting Huge dips in the 95kpa above 5200, very bad place to go lean.

You want to look at the VE in 2D mode on FULL SCREEN! I attached some pics of your current VE and how it should look. I also attached the numbers I used to generate that table. Its what I would use to start tuning yours with - I used your plotting trends to make it, so it shouldnt be that far off. It should also transition allot smoother between fast MAP and RPM changers. Whether you use my numbers, or stock, start over and redo your VE. Each time you make changes, look at it in 2D mode and smooth out the changes MANUALLY across the board by HAND. Follow the slope trends and move the entire map line up or down evenly. You will notice trends, like MAP at 50kpa 8 of 12 points went up by 5, others where 3,4,6,7. Go with the averages when starting out and move the whole MAP line up by 5. The others may have not had enough data samplings. You will start to see how your whole table shifts up or down. Adjust the rest manualy by hand. You will even be able to tell how much space is between map points after you have done it enough. Thats kinda how I started yours. Dont smooth using HP Tuners til your almost done tuning. Even then, only smooth once.

Dont forget to richen up the PE Equiv to 1.175 across the board!!

Hope that helps.

If you want these, just copy and paste into your tune.

33.7 38.9 43.9 48.9 54.4 59.7 64.0 68.1 71.5 74.5 76.8 78.2 77.2 75.0 72.5 70.1 67.3 64.7 61.8 58.6
35.3 40.4 45.4 50.5 55.9 61.1 65.3 69.4 72.8 75.8 78.1 79.4 78.4 76.3 73.8 71.4 68.6 66.0 63.1 59.9
36.8 41.9 46.9 52.0 57.3 62.4 66.7 70.7 74.1 77.1 79.4 80.7 79.7 77.6 75.1 72.7 69.9 67.3 64.5 61.3
38.3 43.4 48.5 53.5 58.8 63.8 68.0 72.0 75.4 78.5 80.7 81.9 81.0 78.9 76.4 74.1 71.2 68.5 65.8 62.6
39.8 44.9 50.0 55.0 60.2 65.2 69.3 73.3 76.7 79.8 82.0 83.1 82.2 80.2 77.7 75.4 72.5 69.8 67.1 63.9
41.3 46.4 51.5 56.6 61.6 66.5 70.7 74.6 78.0 81.1 83.3 84.3 83.5 81.5 79.0 76.7 73.8 71.1 68.4 65.3
42.8 47.9 53.1 58.1 63.1 67.9 72.0 75.9 79.3 82.4 84.6 85.6 84.8 82.8 80.3 78.0 75.2 72.4 69.7 66.6
44.3 49.5 54.6 59.6 64.5 69.3 73.4 77.2 80.6 83.8 85.8 86.8 86.0 84.0 81.6 79.3 76.5 73.8 71.0 68.0
45.8 51.0 56.1 61.1 66.0 70.6 74.7 78.5 81.9 85.1 87.1 88.0 87.3 85.3 82.9 80.6 77.8 75.0 72.3 69.3
47.3 52.5 57.7 62.7 67.4 72.0 76.0 79.8 83.2 86.4 88.4 89.2 88.5 86.6 84.2 81.9 79.1 76.3 73.6 70.6
48.8 54.0 59.2 64.2 68.9 73.4 77.4 81.1 84.5 87.7 89.7 90.5 89.8 87.9 85.5 83.2 80.4 77.6 75.0 72.0
50.4 55.5 60.7 65.7 70.3 74.7 78.7 82.4 85.8 89.1 91.0 91.7 91.1 89.2 86.7 84.6 81.7 78.9 76.3 73.3
51.9 57.1 62.3 67.3 71.8 76.1 80.0 83.7 87.1 90.4 92.3 92.9 92.3 90.5 88.0 85.9 83.0 80.2 77.6 74.6
53.4 58.6 63.8 68.8 73.2 77.5 81.4 85.0 88.4 91.7 93.6 94.1 93.6 91.8 89.3 87.2 84.3 81.5 78.9 76.0
54.9 60.1 65.3 70.3 74.7 78.8 82.7 86.3 89.7 93.0 94.9 95.4 94.8 93.1 90.6 88.5 85.7 82.8 80.2 77.3
56.4 61.6 66.9 71.8 76.1 80.2 84.0 87.6 91.0 94.4 96.2 96.6 96.1 94.4 91.9 89.8 87.0 84.1 81.5 78.7
57.9 63.1 68.4 73.4 77.6 81.6 85.4 88.9 92.3 95.7 97.5 97.8 97.4 95.7 93.2 91.1 88.3 85.4 82.8 80.0
59.9 65.1 70.5 75.5 79.8 83.4 87.0 90.9 94.3 97.7 99.5 99.8 99.0 97.5 95.2 93.1 90.3 87.4 84.8 82.0
61.9 67.1 72.3 77.1 81.8 85.4 89.0 92.9 96.3 99.7 101.5 102.2 101.0 99.5 97.2 95.1 92.3 89.4 86.8 84.0

[AJohn6]

gn2beatu,

Last weekend I copied and pasted your suggested VE table and ran it. Everything looked great except the 100kpa and 105kpa, the scan showed it about +8 to +10. I selected the 100 and 105 lines multiplied them by 1.015 ran it again and everything was within -3 in most cells but not all.

So what you are saying is when I go to smooth it out I should do it in 2D, and hand smooth it after every time I make corrections to the VE table? I was trying to use the smooth button when I would do it and yeah it just messed everything up. I also changed the PE ratio to 1.17 if you think it should be 1.175 I will try it also.

I made the suggested changes to the Shift time and it the truck shift nice and fast but I am still having troubles when it shifts from 2-3. When it does shift from 2-3 it is a fast shift it just takes several seconds for it to do so. For example when I am shifting manually from 1-2 or 3-4 it is almost instantaneous. As in, when I move the gear selector on the column there is no hesitation. But when I do it from 2-3 there is a noticeable time lag for it to shift, on average about two seconds. It also lags when the truck is WOT in drive. When it is in drive and normal part throttle there is very little lag in all gears. In the tune I have the shift RPM set for 5500 rpm and yet after reviewing the scan it didn't shift until the truck was around 6100 rpm. The shift from 1-2 was pretty fast. For 1-2, I have the shift point set at 5800 rpm and it reached 5960 rpm before shifting.

I do still need a little guidance on adjusting the Spark tables. From what I have read, most people say start adding until you notice detonation then back of 2*. I honestly am not really sure what I am listening for. So I have left it alone for now. I would really like to understand and grasp this concept.

Also every now and then I get a random surge that will sometimes kill the engine and other times make it stumble to the point of almost dying. There is some consistency when it does it usually if I bump the throttle just a hair (15-18% from the scan) it happens. On a couple of scans I have noticed where it does it and it seems like it dump a lot of fuel into it and my AFR goes real rich to about 9.7-11.0

Once again your guys help is greatly appreciated,

Adam

[smokestack]

Post up your last tune written. So we can see what all changed. And im sure the Gurus will be off work soon enough to help

Just looking at your last tune. Your shift times are still way too high.

That would be under the trans tab. Auto shift properties. Shift time. Change those to like... Well do like me and change all to .100 and then tune it from there. I left mine at .100

[AJohn6]

Post up your last tune written. So we can see what all changed. And im sure the Gurus will be off work soon enough to help

Just looking at your last tune. Your shift times are still way too high.

That would be under the trans tab. Auto shift properties. Shift time. Change those to like... Well do like me and change all to .100 and then tune it from there. I left mine at .100

Sorry i got in a rush and forgot to attach...

[gn2beatu]

Hard to believe that I got that close from those few points, wow :-)

As for the shifting, remember it has to meet RPM & MPH, so look at what MPH your commanding, and what MPH it shifted at. Sounds like you may need to lower your MPH to shift it where you want too.

As far as the VE, yes do it by hand til the end. You will notice how the MAP lines stay fairly equal distance from each other. Well when you only get say 8 of the 10 points that match, and two that dont, then make the other two match how the other eight are trending in the slope.

For the spark tables, you dont want to be listening for detonation. By the time you hear it, your already 6-8 degress of knock retard. Just look at histogram number two, and you will see the areas that have knock. Then go to your timing table and subtract the amount of knock from the timing.

As far as the surge, is it at idle or when you let off the gas? If at idle, your base RAF needs to be adjusted up or down. Look at the lbs per min at idle, then look at min, raise or lower it 10% at a time til it gets better. If its when you let of the gas, then the VE may need work in the low KPA areas probably, as well as the base RAF.

[AJohn6]

I am finally back in town and I haven't really driven the truck. Once I do I will try out the suggestions.

Thanks,
Adam