Confused about SD tuning

[redgto4u]

Hey all,

I'm trying to figure out if I should stay OLSD or use CLSD. The car seems to run the same in either. What I want to know is when scanning the car do I need to paste special mult% using the stft's or afr wb % error to the VE table?

Also My afr wb % error pid seems to show negative numbers and my stfts tend to show positive in those same cells. How can I tell which is accurate? Shouldn't they both be close to each other?

[mowton]

Hey all,

I'm trying to figure out if I should stay OLSD or use CLSD. The car seems to run the same in either. What I want to know is when scanning the car do I need to paste special mult% using the stft's or afr wb % error to the VE table?

Also My afr wb % error pid seems to show negative numbers and my stfts tend to show positive in those same cells. How can I tell which is accurate? Shouldn't they both be close to each other?

You can run in either. Open loop will give you complete control of air/fueling while CL will use the O2's to maintain stoich in non-wot operation. The open loop will require tweaking during season changes while the closed loop will make adjustments to maintain stoich fueling.

As far as the trims go, in open loop you will of course disable them and I always make sure to clear them to get them to zero just because I am anal . In Closed loop you need to make sure you clear the LTFT before each log/tune session to make sure they are zero as well. You can disable the LTFT and zero them and only use STFT to bypass this log/tune step. In OL you use the WB error and in cl you can use the trims or WB err. I would use the WB err. The computer uses both LT and STFT to generate the fueling. If the LTFT was negative in you above scenario, then the STFT would be positive until the LTFT "learned" to zero. The other possibility is you WB err histo is backwards which would give you opposite results.

Post you log, .cfg and histograms for review if you would like.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

Thanks for the info. Its been awhile since tuning and I want to do it right with my new motor.

The files I have included are from my logging today. I had ltft's and sft's(closed loop) disabled. Everything looks good to me according to the log (clsd5) so I made one last paste special mult % to the ve table with what was recorded on the wb%err histo. All pretty close with exception of a few of the wot cells...which I haven't touched at all until today being its a new motor! From there I will re-enable closed loop and rename my file clsd.hpt. So as I have it now it should run well in both cl/ol modes once I upload clsd file correct?

[mowton]

I am having a problem with the .cfg file and the log...were they used together? I don't see any wb info in the log? unsupported parameters?

Also, you have way too many pids in your .cfg. Need to reduce them to less than 24. You have 43.....attached is an update one

Ed M

[redgto4u]

Sounds good. Alot of those pids I dont look at or use. Does it effect scanner performance having all that up?

Since I don't have hpt pro I'm using my ac press signal to get my wideband readings on there. Do I need to include my pids for that so you can see what I'm seeing? I did use that cfg file while scanning.

[mowton]

Sounds good. Alot of those pids I dont look at or use. Does it effect scanner performance having all that up?

Since I don't have hpt pro I'm using my ac press signal to get my wideband readings on there. Do I need to include my pids for that so you can see what I'm seeing? I did use that cfg file while scanning.

With excessive PIDs you lose resolution. Do you see how your traces are stepped.

Yes, need the AC pressure pids

Ed M

[mowton]

Setup this PID -- [PID.7101]/.322+7.35 which I found in another thread. Seems close...Is this correct?

You need to relog with the reduced number of PIDs though. Use this updated .cfg file. Delete the previous one I sent.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

The 2 pids I'm using are as follows:

LC1 WB
([PID.7101]/.5)+10.05

LC1 WB%ERR
100*((([PID.7101]/.5)+10.05)-[SENS.121])/[SENS.121]

Is there a way I can attach a pid file? Not sure.

10-20 AFR range. The formula you suggest is a "zoomed in" equation. I supposed I could change my WB to 11:1 - 16:1 and re-work the formulas. Might make it more accurate?

[mowton]

The 2 pids I'm using are as follows:

LC1 WB
([PID.7101]/.5)+10.05

LC1 WB%ERR
100*((([PID.7101]/.5)+10.05)-[SENS.121])/[SENS.121]

Is there a way I can attach a pid file? Not sure.

10-20 AFR range. The formula you suggest is a "zoomed in" equation. I supposed I could change my WB to 11:1 - 16:1 and re-work the formulas. Might make it more accurate?

I'll change the LC1 WB PID on my end. No need to attach.

I already set up the %err PID. You can make the formula a bit easier by using the "User XXXX" assigned to your LC1 WB PID instead of ([PID.7101]/.5)+10.01)

What you need to do is set to open loop, clear trims and log/tune using the new .cfg I gave you so you can get better data and verify your results.

VE tune -- set MAF Fail = 0 hz, DTC p0101, 0102 and 0103 to fail 1st err and the other open loop setting.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

The maf is failed and codes are set as required.

I do plan to do some more logging/tuning to get this thing dialed in better. Considering changing my lc1 settings fro 10-20 to 11-16. Gotta change all the formulas with hptuners anddd my aeroforce scan gauge. Not too big a deal though. I am running my wideband in 1/6th sample rate per some of the posts on here. Seams to get a better average of things.

The real trouble I am having now is the cold idle sucks! Really bad. It hunts from 500-1400 and runs reallly lean. Its bad enough to where I think it might be bad for the motor. After about 30 seconds and me playing with the throttle it will return to a stoich afr and stay at 950rpm and then I can be on my merry way. I have tried changing every table I can think of one by one to see if it makes a difference. Tried enabling closed loop at startup, base run airflow ect multiplier, cranking fuel, injection timing (normal ect), and even warmup transient fuel. NO CHANGES to my extremely poor cold start idle.

The last table I messed with was startup airflow. Since it only goes out to 8 seconds I figured this one wasn't an issue and it starts every time cold/hot no problems. It just runs like cr@p cold! I put this table back to stock and it was hard to start(still cold - ect 100 degrees) but the lean idle/hunting was slightly improved.

Can anyone help me with this issue?! I have searched to no end.

[mowton]

What injectors are you running?

Put the open loop IVT table back to stock (add 1) and set the cells from 140/160 degrees and up to 1.0. Hand smooth the transitions. Need a bit of enrichment when the engine is cold and you are only tuning when the engine has reached operating temp.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

Fast 46ers.

Youre talking about the IVT gain table? Then add 1 since everything else is one not ten anymore.

How does the pcm get/calc IVT??

[mowton]

Fast 46ers.

Youre talking about the IVT gain table? Then add 1 since everything else is one not ten anymore.

How does the pcm get/calc IVT??

Youre talking about the IVT gain table? Then add 1 since everything else is one not ten anymore.

Yes, the idea is to use the normal enrichment function during warmup and tune/operate with the 1.0 factor at operating temperatures.

How does the pcm get/calc IVT?

Good question but not really sure. I assume the engineers develop during the initial tuning sessions to develop the final tune package. Gives the PCM a more detailed value to determine evaporation I guess as well over just ECT.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

Thanks for all the help. I messaged the ivt table and it runs fairly good cold now. Having a problem with my 2-3 shift now... Never had any issue with my last motor. The trans is a performabuilt 2. Still messing with the trans tables....I hope its not screwed up! I'm going to log it and see if it commanding the 2-3 shift and have a buddy command it via the scanner. Everything runs perfect part throttle. Just got into wot tweaking since the new motor has some miles and now I got this issue.

Heres the tune as it sits.

[mowton]

Thanks for all the help. I messaged the ivt table and it runs fairly good cold now. Having a problem with my 2-3 shift now... Never had any issue with my last motor. The trans is a performabuilt 2. Still messing with the trans tables....I hope its not screwed up! I'm going to log it and see if it commanding the 2-3 shift and have a buddy command it via the scanner. Everything runs perfect part throttle. Just got into wot tweaking since the new motor has some miles and now I got this issue.

Heres the tune as it sits.

Good, post some of the logs and make sure during the warmup it doesn't go too rich. Are you finished with the VE tuning? I would set the PE table to a straight line 1.15 and tune the VE to arrive at the .85 lambda value at WOT. Then you can "tweak" the PE if necessary to make "predictable" changes to the AFR if required.

Not sure about the tranny, but log the torque output values to see where in the pressure tables you are. You have changed the airflow values and that could have an effect on the torque calculation.

Ed M

[redgto4u]

I changed those recently because I couldn't get it to shift to 3rd wot. I even read somewhere here I can put those to zero so it's based only on rpm and not both.

[mourat]

I have an NGK AFX wideband but I honestly dont like the whole confusion of open loop tuning, I dont see the reasoning behind it if your tuning for drivability and maintaining 14.7:1.

First, I prefer to start with a stock VE table. Turn MAF off but keep closed loop.

for 2006+ use bluecat and build yourself a histogram in VCM scanner using valves from tunercat.

Warm engine up to normal and monitor your STFT+LTFT, build a pid using following sensors:

[SENS.114]+{SENS.116], Units %.

So your adding the % of both Long Term and Short Terms.

When you use your wideband I notice you alway get a slight variation here and there, if you monitor your narrowbands, then when you drive you've calibrated for them so you get your LTFT within 0.8 . In the end, your narrow bands are the ones running your car not your wideband.

Then use wideband for WOT tuning, this way you can leave all those other values alone for open loop etc.. Once tuned, you can go into open loop and see, your fueling should be band on.