Torque Management Advance

[the1n_only]

Ive been chasing my tail with this one. I have noticed it on a few cars now and on mine it is pulling as much as -25 degrees of timing causing the car to buck. I have all torque management tuned out and it keeps pulling timing. Can someone assist? Thank you.

[edcmat-l1]

Data log and a tune would help.

[the1n_only]

The tune is all I have, I am currently on a business trip until the 29th. If you can take a look and see if you spot anything that could cause torque management advance to pull timing that would be great. Thanks in advance

Here is a run down of the car...

451 CI 4.185 bore 4.100 stroke
12:1 static compression
257/266 .649/.637 112+4
1.7 Terra Yella
TFS 245 68cc heads .040 cometic's
ported 102 fast and NW TB
FAST 57lb injectors
Electric water pump
ATI 10% underdrive pulley
American Racing 1 7/8 headers no CATs
Z06 B&B Bullets
Halltech Superbee intake / converted to LS7 MAF
RPS BC2 clutch - steel flywheel
3.42 gears

[edcmat-l1]

If you don't have a data log, I need a better description of what it's doing. "Pulling timing causing buck" doesn't cut it. When? What is exactly going on, and what does it feel like? What are the driving conditions?

[DSteck]

I assume you're talking about low rpm light throttle cruising. Pull timing from the main spark table. I run cars at 22-25* below 1800 and 0.40 g/cyl to get big cams to calm down.

[the1n_only]

DSteck I do get some light part throttle surge, but I found it surged worse running that the timing around that point. I bumped the timing up and it cleaned it up considerably. Where I see the torque management advance kick in and pull timing is on throttle tip in. For example changing from first to second or second to third gear during a light cruse situation. You also sometimes see it in 5th and 6th gear light throttle it will pull at time 5 to 6 degrees of timing. At first i thought it was burst knock pulling timing, which it does for a briefly like it should but I also noticed something else was pulling timing. I set up my scanner to log all timing PIDs and low and behold that was causing the huge timing dips and bucking. I can push the clutch in and right back out and it goes away. I wish I could get post a scan.

edcmat-l1 and Dsteck This is my first car Ive tuned. I had a big name shop tune it and paid 500 for a sub par tune that you could barley drive on the street because of the bucking, poor fuel mileage, Some times it would start some times it wouldn't. I could go on and on about the things that was hacked and i've managed to correct. If you can take a look and provide some constructive criticism from two well respected tuners it would be greatly appreciated.

[Higgs Boson]

turn off tc and stabilitrack and see if it still pulls, make sure you have all -1.00 in the multiplier table under Trans - TM - table at the bottom right

when i tune the timing map i do this and it doesn't pull any timing so i can see what's really going on at the motor.

[Nodnarb]

I'm having the same problem right now with an 06 Z06 with an almost identical setup. Torque management is juggling timing in the 1400-1800 rpm cruise area causing it to buck.

[DSteck]

Those timing dips aren't the cause. Disable M6 spark smoothing. The spikes will go away but it will still buck.

[Nodnarb]

I was under the impression that M6 spark smoothing made the transition from coastdown spark to main spark/idle spark table not quite as abrupt. Is this not the case?

And why do you say the bucking wont go away? The only time the car bucks is when the spark gets juggled like that. I've taken timing out of those areas to try and calm it down but everytime that TqMgmt advance shows itself, the car starts bucking.

[the1n_only]

I'm having the same problem right now with an 06 Z06 with an almost identical setup. Torque management is juggling timing in the 1400-1800 rpm cruise area causing it to buck.

That is exactly what mine does.

[DSteck]

It's an effect, not a cause.

[Nodnarb]

Care to elaborate?

BTW, my tune has been scaled by 25% I don't know if that throws anything out of whack.

[DSteck]

Just try it. Disable M6 spark smoothing and tell me what happens.

[the1n_only]

I wonder just how much my FAST injectors are amplifying things. All they are is re-drilled LS2 injectors and not having the correct injector data. Ive been looking hard at the ID1000 for when I switch over to E85 and more compression.

[the1n_only]

turn off tc and stabilitrack and see if it still pulls, make sure you have all -1.00 in the multiplier table under Trans - TM - table at the bottom right

when i tune the timing map i do this and it doesn't pull any timing so i can see what's really going on at the motor.

Im not sure what table you are referencing here. Keep in mind this is a 6 speed car not an auto.

[the1n_only]

What effect does the "minimum final spark" and does it play a roll in torque management advance?

[Nodnarb]

Just try it. Disable M6 spark smoothing and tell me what happens.

My car is out of my hands for a while. the1n_only, can you try this and report back?

So if it is M6 spark smoothing causing those dips, where is it getting the values to apply?

[the1n_only]

Nodarb, I will give it a try but I don't get back into town from my business trip until Saturday evening. But im with you, where is the source of the values causing the timing pull.

[Nodnarb]

Sounds good. I won't have the car back for several weeks.