tune by big name tuner shop, for your review

[DSteck]

So sending a customer off with hi and lo tables set the same is acceptable?

Takes away the ecu's ability to fight it's life

My complaints is really in the table just being all over the place
Probably shows up in the driveabilty of that particular vehicle

My personal car has the high and low tables set the same because I don't want it to learn down. I do the same for track only cars because I don't want the car to lose timing for a while because something hits the exhaust.

[jakebdb56]

For anyone to do that to a customer and charge them is just awful. Too many charging for tunes and shouldn't

AMEN!!!

It's hilarious how many hombres in the valley now call themselves tuners just because they have the software and a HPT sticker lol. I didn't feel comfortable charging anyone ANYTHING until I learned a LOT tuning my own vehicles. After doing this crap for about 5 years now it's funny looking back...

Holy sh*t.

, I'd love to see the color of the headers...

[edcmat-l1]

I like to knock 7 degrees off the entire low table. Seems to work fine.

That's not exactly the bestest way to do that either. If you knock 7 degrees out of the entire table, you end up with the 7 degree decrease in the low load cruise areas too, which can effect mileage. I usually follow the OE pattern of reducing the spark only in the higher airflow higher load areas. Leaving the low load areas alone makes sure you still get some decent mileage out of it if it ends up running off the LO table.

[jakebdb56]

That's not exactly the bestest way to do that either. If you knock 7 degrees out of the entire table, you end up with the 7 degree decrease in the low load cruise areas too, which can effect mileage. I usually follow the OE pattern of reducing the spark only in the higher airflow higher load areas. Leaving the low load areas alone makes sure you still get some decent mileage out of it if it ends up running off the LO table.

True, but then again my dad's truck knocked like a bitch stock. 09 Sierra, had the 799 heads though on a 5.3, had to take out 6 degrees from the low octane table to keep it from knocking audibly under load/cruise and throttle variations.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

That's not exactly the bestest way to do that either. If you knock 7 degrees out of the entire table, you end up with the 7 degree decrease in the low load cruise areas too, which can effect mileage. I usually follow the OE pattern of reducing the spark only in the higher airflow higher load areas. Leaving the low load areas alone makes sure you still get some decent mileage out of it if it ends up running off the LO table.

This is a valid point. But then again, most of the things that come out of my shop aren't exactly fuel sipping, mpg whores to begin with. They're more like ultra-violent street machines.

Although this Kenne Bell Silverado I built sees the occassional towing of about 1000 pounds so it might be useful to adjust the High and Low spark tables accordingly

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

, I'd love to see the color of the headers...

You and me both my friend!

[Higgs Boson]

True, but then again my dad's truck knocked like a bitch stock. 09 Sierra, had the 799 heads though on a 5.3, had to take out 6 degrees from the low octane table to keep it from knocking audibly under load/cruise and throttle variations.

They all seem to knock pretty bad in my experience. I always tell people to fill up with the station they use most before they get a tune.

[edcmat-l1]

This is a valid point. But then again, most of the things that come out of my shop aren't exactly fuel sipping, mpg whores to begin with. They're more like ultra-violent street machines.

Those are the ones that don't need a LO table at all.

[Mez]

We've seen lots of VERY QUESTIONABLE tunes over the last couple of years. Just because the tune was done by a big name shop does not mean it is a high quality.

When I tuned my car, I set the high and low octane tables to the same so I know what timing is being used. After I've completed the dyno tune, I'll adjust the low octane table so it does what it is suppose to do. The factory high and low octane tables are the same at .30 gr/cylinder and less. At .30 gr/cylinder and above, it subtracts 1 degree per line until its -10 degrees. For a street car, I may only cut it by 7 degrees. In any case, if the car is tuned right, it should not knock period, so why eliminate a feature that protects the engine from damage especially with FI?

For my 2005 Corvette, I desensitize the knock sensors about 10% to eliminate low load random cruise KR.

A shop I visit regularly sees cars all the time where the tunes were unquestionably horrible. Some of the tuning vendors on another popular forum did not like it when I posted a thread that detailed some of the common hacks. I never posted any of the tuner names, but I heard they did not like it.

[edcmat-l1]

In any case, if the car is tuned right, it should not knock period, so why eliminate a feature that protects the engine from damage especially with FI?

So, if a bone stock, untuned car has some KR, it's not tuned right?

For my 2005 Corvette, I desensitize the knock sensors about 10% to eliminate low load random cruise KR.

There are some that believe desensitizing knock sensors is "hack" tuning. The OE calibrators who setup the KS sensitivity know far more than either you or I.

A shop I visit regularly sees cars all the time where the tunes were unquestionably horrible. Some of the tuning vendors on another popular forum did not like it when I posted a thread that detailed some of the common hacks. I never posted any of the tuner names, but I heard they did not like it.

I remember that thread. Some were valid points, others, not so much. This is one of the problems a lot of guys who have tuned a few cars have. They think that their way is the only way, or that certain things should only be done a certain way. Same as your comment about KR. That there should be "none period". While I do agree KR isn't really a good thing, perfectly stock cars have some KR, and there must be a reason. To completely eliminate it in a bone stock car, you either have to diminish the timing to the point of reducing the power, or you have to desensitize the knock sensors, which without some way of knowing if it IS actually knocking, really shouldn't be done.

PE "raping" is another one. The GM PE tables look "raped". Does that mean the OE calibrators are "hacks"?

Smoothing is another one. I see guys all the time complain that a timing table looks "hacked" because it's not ski slope smooth. Well, neither are the OE tables. Does that mean the OE calibrators are "hacks".

In other vehicles, doing something like changing the MAF transfer (a common practice in many forms of tuning) is a HUGE NONO! But we do it all the time on the GMs. Does this make everyone who scales a MAF a hack?

I'm ok with knowing there's many different ways to do something, and that many different people will have many different ways of doing the same thing. I DO believe that a good tune or calibration should accurately model airflow, both VE AND MAF, and fuel delivery, and that it (the tune) should be as minimally invasive as possible. I don't believe in turning off codes just for the sake of turning them off. I don't believe in maxing misfire tables. I don't believe in setting knock recovery so ridiculously high that it's a potential threat to the engine. But, I ALSO don't believe a little bit of knock retard is a terrible thing. If you have a little bit, it means everything is working right.

[DSteck]

I typically don't worry about less than 2* of knock because a) I won't feel it and b) it returns to full timing pretty quick. Unless it happens at the exact same operating condition every time, I let it fly.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Is it just me or does this thread piss everyone off just a little bit?

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Software and a HPT sticker lol.

Hey WTF? I didn't get any stickers!

[jakebdb56]

They all seem to knock pretty bad in my experience. I always tell people to fill up with the station they use most before they get a tune.

Especially with ma and pa gas stations selling junk 87.

PE "raping" is another one. The GM PE tables look "raped". Does that mean the OE calibrators are "hacks"?

In other vehicles, doing something like changing the MAF transfer (a common practice in many forms of tuning) is a HUGE NONO! But we do it all the time on the GMs. Does this make everyone who scales a MAF a hack?

Well, yes if you compare a stock 4.8 and 5.3 file and find them exactly the same with the exception of a couple random cells and PE.

Scaling a MAF or VE table is typically out of necessity due to the hard-coded airflow limits within the PCM. It'd be great if the stock controller supported 5 bar, 2048g/sec, and 5+g/cyl but it's a bit much to ask lol

Hey WTF? I didn't get any stickers!

Suuuuucks, I got a Superchips and HPTuners sticker way back when. Was kinda confused about the superchips one, thought maybe the guy in shipping was screwing with people throwing in random other stickers lol. I'm not too fond of the HPTuners logo, otherwise I'd actually put the sticker on something other than a beer bong or beater truck...

[streetsweepergto]

My personal car has the high and low tables set the same because I don't want it to learn down. I do the same for track only cars because I don't want the car to lose timing for a while because something hits the exhaust.

Ok gotcha everyone has a little different methodology of how to handle those 2 tables.

[DSteck]

95% of the time I leave the low octane table in place to function how it should.

[Unreal]

I just got sent a tune from a big name shop to help me with my supercharged LS7. They said it was a tune from a supercharged LS7 they did. When I opened it I cried. I couldn't believe how hacked it looks.

Check it out.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Suuuuucks, I got a Superchips and HPTuners sticker way back when. Was kinda confused about the superchips one, thought maybe the guy in shipping was screwing with people throwing in random other stickers lol. I'm not too fond of the HPTuners logo, otherwise I'd actually put the sticker on something other than a beer bong or beater truck...

Ha! WTF? SuperTuners to the rescue!

[DSteck]

I just got sent a tune from a big name shop to help me with my supercharged LS7. They said it was a tune from a supercharged LS7 they did. When I opened it I cried. I couldn't believe how hacked it looks.

Check it out.

PM me, I can help you out.

[Unreal]

PM sent. I would have never bought all these parts from the company I did if I knew they basically had zero support after the sale.