tune by big name tuner shop, for your review

[edcmat-l1]

FI build. For the guys who know what they're looking at, I don't need to explain. Just looking for comments...........

Would like for the customer, who is asking me questions about it, to see other comments on how and what was done. I'm looking for the more experienced guys to comment. I'm not looking to bash, or throw anyone under the bus. Just the facts.

Attachment 30618

[DSteck]

I spoke to that guy a couple weeks ago and saw that file... I almost threw up.

What's hilarious is the tuner said those were the right settings for the MAP sensor, but they aren't. They're the calibration values that the file defaults to when converting to a 2.5bar OS. Beyond that, the injector data looks like it was just thrown together, and is wrong anyway. The tune is supposedly scaled, but definitely isn't, and probably has the startup issues that it does as a result of the horrible startup airflow table and the non scaled cranking VE table. I have no idea why the ETC Area Scalar was modified.

Just poor all around. It isn't even close to scaled correctly, and beyond that has some really crappy injectors.

[edcmat-l1]

I spoke to that guy a couple weeks ago and saw that file... I almost threw up.

What's hilarious is the tuner said those were the right settings for the MAP sensor, but they aren't. They're the calibration values that the file defaults to when converting to a 2.5bar OS. Beyond that, the injector data looks like it was just thrown together, and is wrong anyway. The tune is supposedly scaled, but definitely isn't, and probably has the startup issues that it does as a result of the horrible startup airflow table and the non scaled cranking VE table. I have no idea why the ETC Area Scalar was modified.

Just poor all around. It isn't even close to scaled correctly, and beyond that has some really crappy injectors.

That's not even the good stuff. I'll give you a hint. KS. Check everything about them.

[Mep_q8]

Looks like a hacked tune. Something to get it tuned on the dyno for cheap and fast.

[DSteck]

That's not even the good stuff. I'll give you a hint. KS. Check everything about them.

Yea, I had mentioned to No... Err, the owner that the knock sensors may as well not even be in at this point because of how raped the settings were.

This reminds me, I forgot to call him back. :-/

[jon6.0]

Dave also looked at my tune and let me in on the fact that my knock sensors may as well not even be there. I put the settings back to what a stock 05 GTO has with the exception of burst knock. Guess what? I had up to 1.6* of KR around 6200rpm. Sometimes on a WOT pull it gets a little KR and sometimes there is none. It's disconcerting that some shops will mess with the knock sensors that much.

[MikeOD]

I've heard a LOT of "oh, he turns the knock sensors off on every forced induction build"...about a very "reputable" tuner...probably not the same one that made this file...and I've seen that same tuner say "they just get in the way on a forced induction car"...no they DON'T.

[edcmat-l1]

I've heard a LOT of "oh, he turns the knock sensors off on every forced induction build"...about a very "reputable" tuner...probably not the same one that made this file...and I've seen that same tuner say "they just get in the way on a forced induction car"...no they DON'T.

There are ways of desensitizing them. Some applications need them desensitized. These were not desensitized. They were disabled. By setting the min level for knock FIVE TIMES HIGHER! you effectively disable them. Jacking the min level will set a knock sensor code. I've seen it before. I had another car a few years back come in with a knock sensor code, and after doing some basic diagnostics, saw this table jacked up, put it back to stock and no more code.

Also, the KR recovery rate is multiplied FIFTY X through most of it!!! Again it's pretty common to increase the rate at which the timing is put back, but personally, I typically multiply by 3, NOT FIFTY! The combination of the two is a recipe for disaster. A batch of bad gas could be detrimental to this thing.

[zippy performance]

There are so many things in that tune in general that are just horrible I don't even know what to start picking on. We had this same discussion type on another site the other day. It was mail order tune vs. dyno tune. I said it depends on the dyno tuner. Just because someone straps a car to a dyno and owns software it doesn't make it a good tune. I'd say myself, Ed, or many others on here could have guessed from info on an e-mail and gotten a tune better than that. For anyone to do that to a customer and charge them is just awful. Too many charging for tunes and shouldn't which is part of the reason I rarely help people on here anymore. They are buying software and using this site to learn how to tune. You don't learn how to tune from a forum and charge people.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Holy sh*t.

[DSteck]

I've heard a LOT of "oh, he turns the knock sensors off on every forced induction build"...about a very "reputable" tuner...probably not the same one that made this file...and I've seen that same tuner say "they just get in the way on a forced induction car"...no they DON'T.

My TT setup still uses completely stock knock sensor settings. I can run 15psi all damn day even with 170+ IATs and still not trigger them. I don't see why people hack the settings apart on them. Change them a little, sure... But not to that extent.

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

Just for the sake of being able to post once more, that tune has been totally molested. Virtually every safety protocol the ECM has over the engine has been either disabled or drastically reduced in performance. Soon that very high dollar engine is going to go flying apart due to any imperfection from the outside (like bad gas) unless basically every parameter is re-tuned correctly. That's piss poor.

[Dr. Nopps]

There are ways of desensitizing them. Some applications need them desensitized.

Give yourself more credit. I would go so far as to call your approach "tuning" the knock sensors/tables as per application. With the ammount of money invested in this guys build.... thank god you stepped in!

[PopUpBlocker]

I wouldn't even let that "shop" tuna fish sandwich.

[MikeOD]

There are ways of desensitizing them. Some applications need them desensitized. These were not desensitized. They were disabled. By setting the min level for knock FIVE TIMES HIGHER! you effectively disable them. Jacking the min level will set a knock sensor code. I've seen it before. I had another car a few years back come in with a knock sensor code, and after doing some basic diagnostics, saw this table jacked up, put it back to stock and no more code.

Also, the KR recovery rate is multiplied FIFTY X through most of it!!! Again it's pretty common to increase the rate at which the timing is put back, but personally, I typically multiply by 3, NOT FIFTY! The combination of the two is a recipe for disaster. A batch of bad gas could be detrimental to this thing.

Oh I agree...there can be other things that will falsely trigger the knock sensors...they're pretty dam good though...pinging happens in fairly tight frequency ranges though...there's no need to ever eliminate them.

[streetsweepergto]

the spark table looks really terrible.

hi and low octane table has the same values. wtf?

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

the spark table looks really terrible.

hi and low octane table has the same values. wtf?

That's actually fairly common for an aggressive tune. I personally do it all the time to help me dial in the timing.

However, the way it's thrown together is no bueno. I am terrible at scaling and I can already see where scaling should have been performed and is not throughout various tables. Dear Mr. Customer, this is garbage. I bet it gets sucky fuel economy too. Please fix it.

[Phil'sC5Vette]

tranny's screw up to.

[streetsweepergto]

That's actually fairly common for an aggressive tune. I personally do it all the time to help me dial in the timing.

However, the way it's thrown together is no bueno. I am terrible at scaling and I can already see where scaling should have been performed and is not throughout various tables. Dear Mr. Customer, this is garbage. I bet it gets sucky fuel economy too. Please fix it.

So sending a customer off with hi and lo tables set the same is acceptable?

Takes away the ecu's ability to fight it's life

My complaints is really in the table just being all over the place
Probably shows up in the driveabilty of that particular vehicle

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

So sending a customer off with hi and lo tables set the same is acceptable?

Takes away the ecu's ability to fight it's life

My complaints is really in the table just being all over the place
Probably shows up in the driveabilty of that particular vehicle

Mmmm, there's kind of a moot point there.....

Typically I make them all the same so I can dial in the spark tables accurately.

For an aggressive tune I'll leave them the same, but for a street tune, I like to knock 7 degrees off the entire low table. Seems to work fine.