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Thread: Basic VVT Tuning info

  1. #21
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    Has anybody tried valve timing smoothing similar to the spark timing smoothing?
    Cobalt SS Turbo - GMS1, MPX Catted DP, MPX Catback Exhaust, K&N SRI, Custom HP Tune

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    if your thinking of smooth entire function that would not be a good idea. shift could be drastic and make it run worse
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #23
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    So far I've been now tuning off of MAF vs. RPM vs. Cylinder Airmass.
    Just logging averages for each cell im already seeing increased air flow (or decreased if change was bad) based on vvt settings.
    Maf used to peak out around 16 lb/min, so far with tweaks im seeing peaks around 18

  4. #24
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    your at 18 lbs/min ve on the maf?

    massage the shit out of those cams im at 28lb/min ve you should be inthe 30's if im not mistaken
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  5. #25
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    Not ve, just regular maf from the MAF (SAE) PID

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    so maf ve sae? still if thats the one you use i would think your numbers would still be in the 30s? someone correct me if im wrong ..
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  7. #27
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    MAF freq skewing affects both readings but the MAF lb/min is affected more.

    31.5 VE lb/min on a fully bolted LNF is pretty normal IIRC. Mine was.

    MAF lb/min was higher.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    mines 30lbs/min on factory cam adjustments with upped boost lol stupid head have poor torque though need a ss dyno badly
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  9. #29
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i do not know if this is new news but i just recognized this on my last log i did.
    when at idle the intake cam value in the editor is -1.00, and the exhaust cam value is -6.00........now when i looked at my log file the actual cam values in "deg*" was 0.00!! anyone agree on this find?

    i believe i have just discovered the resting postion of the cams center value, although i will admit a coupple of you pro tuners out there may have already found this or know of the exact 0* value. what the find means is if the cams are displayed as an actual 0.00* value then the cams are at the base degree-in the factory specs call for. any adjustments past those values in either direction make the cams go either advanced or retarded.
    so if anyone really has time to explore the cams i would reccomend what i learned in the video suggested in a prev post and set both charts to the 0.00* value in the editor (-1 int & -6 exh) then start with the intake cam moving in values of 5 in the editor measuring solid state torque values. once you have found the max torque location fine adjust it with values of 1 and so on.. then move onto the exhaust cam and do the same procedure. it will take alot of time but the cams will be in their prime sweet spot. this should greatly increase gas mileage and power up top. then perform dynamic dyno pulls and move the exhaust cam around to improve spool time and torque until that reaches its quickest spool and max torque value. adjust timing and fuel to most power is made and viola you should not have to tune again unless changing parts or adjusting timing for different events with changes in weather/atmosphere.

    now this is why i want real time tuning because i could go out and do this in about 2 days but since we dont have it this is going to take someone with a ton of patience and almost unlimited dyno access which pretty much rules most of us out 8(

    thought id share the info i found and see if anyone knows more about it or agrees with the conclusion i have came to.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Pretty sure GMTech went into this already, but I may be mistaken on the values. He made a custom PID for actual cam positions.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    well i would like to know if i am correct on this so did he post anything about cam finds?
    the info on this subject is so dry i feel like im making great finds just to find out someone knew about it already and is holding back info.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  12. #32
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Yeah, he posted about it, but I can't locate it now. He doesn't hold back. Trust me.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  13. #33
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    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33878

    Been awhile for this stuff, my old brain would need to dust off it's cells to remember what I was talking about here! I am still using the same PID for cam timing. I've changed cam timing a few hundred times since then though. I found a pretty good compromise between power and mpg's in my cam timing, not sure it's worth sharing though since my setup is far, far from stock.

  14. #34
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz View Post
    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33878

    Been awhile for this stuff, my old brain would need to dust off it's cells to remember what I was talking about here! I am still using the same PID for cam timing. I've changed cam timing a few hundred times since then though. I found a pretty good compromise between power and mpg's in my cam timing, not sure it's worth sharing though since my setup is far, far from stock.
    thanks for the link 8D i remember reading about all of this stuff now. but how is it that my intake cam is spos to be 0* at 10 but the scanner shows it at 0* at -1 intake of course??
    is there an link to massaging the dals for midrange?
    cant be farther than mine haha fully ported runners with ti valves and retainers with new springs hahah i win but still dissapointed in power at this time shit stil aint right.
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 07-23-2011 at 10:46 PM.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  15. #35
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    ok so i remember going through that post before it has a ton of stuff in it. but how is the intake cam 0* at avalue of 10 even though at -1 my scanner shows its at 0*
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    so maf ve sae? still if thats the one you use i would think your numbers would still be in the 30s? someone correct me if im wrong ..
    Sorry, i should have mentioned that mines the 2.4 n/a and its stock. Im leaving it stock for now so i can look for differences between the same car while tuning. Im trying to maximize overlap without having to advance the timings to far forward in higher rpm conditions. balancing advance with overlap, though to get a better handle on it im going to start running by zeroing out the tables and bumping them by 3 deg each time and see how it feels and then just keep good numbers in place where most power was made for the entire range. then move around the exhaust cam to find good overlap followed by moving both up/down by same value. Thus far i've been just making changes to the stock table and going with what feels good
    Last edited by viceroykarl; 07-25-2011 at 02:50 PM.

  17. #37
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    yea my tables will be way different or at least in way different spots
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #38
    Advanced Tuner silverbullet08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
    This makes me want to play with my megasquirt set up.....
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  19. #39
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    Reading that was pretty reassuring to what I was trying to do back in post 12 http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=12
    i was worried i was going off on a wild tanget. Though i have been busy with my classes and havnt really looked back on it thus far since this will get me back on track.

    Thanks for posting that
    Last edited by viceroykarl; 07-25-2011 at 11:00 PM.

  20. #40
    Advanced Tuner silverbullet08's Avatar
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    So going back over the first post on the overlap and cam timing it talks about. Not sure if anyone has tried this yet but when i compare my cam tables using Gmtechs method on his cat warm up thread on page 2 i see that i am getting almost no overlap in the high load wot areas "-10 to-13" at "3k-4k" and it gets closer to 0 in the upper rpms "-8 to-6"... Sooo if you go off the chart provided in the first post saying that less overlap creats a faster spooling turbo due to the EGts being higher and more overlap causes lower EGTs.. makes me think. The factory cam tables are designed for no overlap in the mid range and more overlap up top. Is this to cool EGTs because of our hot tiny turbo? perhaps a cooling method for it? I want to experiment and see if producing the same overlap in the midrange to the top end will net you more power up top or just higher IATs and a turbo that wears out faster? Could this be a small factor in the boost taper we get as well? i know that the little dude is dieing already up top. Im not sure in the way of doing this.. Should we go more negative on the intake cam "retard" which would open the intake later i believe or advance the exhaust cam to open sooner? opening the exhaust sooner would cause loss of compression at a point so i believe the best method would be to advance it until you see power loss back up a couple degrees then use the intake cam to adjust overlap. Im not sure if this is correct or not as far as seing how the cam angles refer to actual opening and closing. I always get them backwards i think. Please correct me if i am wrong in my thinking of the timing. Feel free to kill the idea if its not worth the time or someone has already tried it.
    HP-Unlimited Tuning and Custom Fabrication
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    MD800 Mustang Dyno 713-560-3889 Taylor
    2016 Camaro A8 "shop car" FIRST 6th GEN CAMARO OVER 200mph IN THE MILE 203.5mph