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Thread: NGK Wideband

  1. #1
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    NGK Wideband

    I have an NGK ATX wide-band. I did the free air calibration but if I turn the car on for something longer than the 20 second count down it wants to recalibrate.

    Is this normal? Should I just throw a switch on the power source? Anyone else have this problem?

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    The AFX doesn't have a calibrate mode, if it see's free air it will just show that. If you start the car up and it still read's that then something is probably wrong with the wideband. Even when you hit decel fuel cut when slowing down the display will sometimes show CAL- or AIR_. Just turn the AFX on in free air rotate the knob til it reads CAL- and stick it in the exhaust and start tuning.
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  3. #3
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    The AFX doesn't have a calibrate mode, if it see's free air it will just show that. If you start the car up and it still read's that then something is probably wrong with the wideband. Even when you hit decel fuel cut when slowing down the display will sometimes show CAL- or AIR_. Just turn the AFX on in free air rotate the knob til it reads CAL- and stick it in the exhaust and start tuning.
    This sums it up well. Once it sees actual exhaust, it'll register and stop displaying the CAL-

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    The AFX doesn't have a calibrate mode, if it see's free air it will just show that. If you start the car up and it still read's that then something is probably wrong with the wideband. Even when you hit decel fuel cut when slowing down the display will sometimes show CAL- or AIR_. Just turn the AFX on in free air rotate the knob til it reads CAL- and stick it in the exhaust and start tuning.
    Mine is a perm install. I would think it would show 16.00 if it was free air. I ran my car up from cold start at idle to 192 degrees, shut off the car, turned on the ignition and sat while I uploaded the tune. During this the gauge showed the 20sec countdown and then went to CAL-. Should be free air in the exhaust at that point.

    Now when I go WOT it reads 11.46 on the gauge which is no where near what it was before the CAL-. It was 12.8-9 before it did the CAL-. Seems like it's off to me.

  5. #5
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    My gauge will show 16.00 or Air if im sitting with the koeo while uploading a tune.

    how long Did you do the pre calibration by letting it sit in the free air for?

    Also another thing could be happening is the knob is rotating with vibrations or was hit.

    I would start over again with the free air calibration and see if it works better.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    pull the sensor out and re calibrate the free air. Make sure the sensor has time to heat up before you set it to CAL-. Once you are done with that stick the sensor back in the exhaust and tune away. If the car has a cutout or sat for very long it is very possible it has free air in the exhaust. If the sensor is close to the exit it will do this too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    pull the sensor out and re calibrate the free air. Make sure the sensor has time to heat up before you set it to CAL-. Once you are done with that stick the sensor back in the exhaust and tune away. If the car has a cutout or sat for very long it is very possible it has free air in the exhaust. If the sensor is close to the exit it will do this too.
    I'll redo the free air CAL. I have cut outs but they were closed during this and my WB sensor is just past my collector.

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    Okay so I did a free air CAL for over 45 minutes. Turned off the power, put it back in the exhaust, went for a drive and at WOT it shows 11.5 AFR. Idle was 14.5 to 15.2, I have a decent size CAM.

    My previous LC-1 showed 12.9 just 2 weeks ago and 2 different dynos (dynojet and Mustang) showed 12.8-12.9.

    I know the NGK is suppose to be more accurate but...

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    I was thinking about this and the only thing that changed was the wideband senor. Could it be the way the NGK calculates AFR from Lambda? If my LC-1 was programmed for 14.7 as Stoich and my NGK reads lambda 1.00 as stoich no matter what fuel you use? Could it be that I actually have E10 in the car? No stickers on the pumps saying ethanol.

    LTFT seem to be around -7 to -10 now too. Winter to summer fuel blend change?

    I'm at a loss why such a swing with just changing my wideband.
    Last edited by SargeZ06; 05-27-2011 at 12:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    I too have this WB and wonder if the WB trys to calibrate itself AGAIN in the exhaust when I am uploading a tune? For some reason when it reads 16.00 on the WB it just stays there when I start tuning.

    I feel like everytime I go to use it, it has to be calibrated. Whenever I turn off the car, seems it needs calibrated??

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  11. #11
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    Mine Says CAL- every time I start the car or turn key to accessory. No issues. In fact I have 2 of them and they both do it...

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    You know sarge when I first use mine for the day mine does too. I disconect the battery when I am not using the WB, but after I initially use it, it goes to 16.00 and stays there?????

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  13. #13
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    There is no calibration mode or any mode for that matter. The controller is just reporting what it's seeing. If it's in free air then you can twist the knob until it say's CAL. If your car has been sitting for a while it will more than likely say anything from 16.00, AIR_ or CAL. Once you heat the sensor up in free air and twist the knob to say CAL you can stick it in the exhaust and use it.
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  14. #14
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    ITs a NTK sensor and everything is not even a month old. I have only used it a few times and its all been at idle. I am about to go use it again (first time for the day). Thing is I think it needs to be calibrated each time I use it, I will report back later.

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    What are you using to install and remove your sensor? I damaged a wire in a brand new one last year and took me a couple of weeks to figure it out. Well, to be honest I did't figure it out at all, I got so pissed I just ordered a new sensor and have not had a problem since.

  16. #16
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    It's doesn't need calibrated every time if it's a permanent install in the car.

    With the sensor out of the bung, turn the knob all the way left or right, turn on the key so it has power, let it heat up for 5-30 minutes, turn knob so it says CAL-, turn off the key, put sensor in pipe, don't touch the knob again. It may say CAL- or Air when you start the car but that's fine. It should start reading the AFR after the 20 second countdown with the car running.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    I have it installed on bank 2 and with my kooks LT's the sensor is right out the side of the header (near the outside of the car), very easy to get to. I just use my large 7/8 wrench to loosen it, put it in the air (on block of wood) and let it sit and turn the knob till it read CAL- and leave it for about 10-15min, then I just turn the car off and reinstall.

    I just kill the battery and leave everything pluged up (haven't taken it apart since I have installed it)

    On a side note today when I went it use it, was reading Correct AFR from the start (SD, no heat soak making it run lean) and when I adjusted the VE when the car warmed up I had the AFR at 14.6-14.9, but when I gave it a little Throttle to those cells and I go lean maxing out my NGK WB to 16-16.1 AFR. I am beginning to think there is a vacuum leak? MAP is high at 65-70 too at idle, so something is up???
    Last edited by Ben Charles; 07-17-2011 at 01:02 PM.

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    I get about the same MAP that you are showing. If you have access to a vac tester, see if you are getting around 15lbs mercury at idle. If you are, then that is about what I would expect with that cam

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Post a log of all this happening... you need to tune in a consistant air temp. Usually when you shut the car off and adjust the tune and flash it the IAT get's heat soaked and will cause the motor to run lean. The Bias table needs to be adjusted or you need to put the IAT in the air stream somewhere to prevent it from getting heat soaked. There is nothing wrong with the wideband... I see this problem all the time in SD!
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  20. #20
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    LSX will do, I have the Bias table at 1.00 at the moment across to have an even mixture of IAT and ECT. I will put up some logs later when I go to tune again. thanks

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