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Thread: hard start after new injectors

  1. #21
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    Cool, thanks for the info. Is the offset for those 67lb injectors higher or lower at the top, like you were saying? That alone might be enough to steer me in the right direction...

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Please stop telling people to buy crap. That's exactly what those are. You'd puke if you saw what the flow looks like coming out of redrilled injectors. Some of them just shoot a garden hose looking stream, which is bad.
    Yes and my pet gorilla named Steve weighs 862 pounds. I said the IFR hardly changes because they've been tested, and yes I read your write up on redrilled injectors. The stream of this injector flows damn near the exact same pattern that your ordinary ZR1 injector does...
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  3. #23
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    IFR hardly changing or not, the offset and short pulse data doesn't exist. That's reason enough to throw them in the trash.

    Smokeshow, I'm not sure what you are asking. Just for kicks though, set that IAT table to 1 and double the programmed stoich AFR. See what happens.

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  4. #24
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.u View Post
    . well then if just playing try seting the hole ifr table to 63lbs.
    Don't do this.

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  5. #25
    Your flow rate vs pressureis wrong. Fix this. Mine has 58.3 @ 58psi which got me pretty close. You will have to scale the rest from there since you have a variable pressure fuel system. There are scaled tables posted, you just have to find them. Your voltage scale table looks close enough to get you in the ball park once you the flow scale fix.

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Proper calibration data exists for these injectors, including voltage offset and short pulse adder. Don't settle for trying values to just get you close.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Proper calibration data exists for these injectors, including voltage offset and short pulse adder. Don't settle for trying values to just get you close.
    True, but even when using "calibrated data", I have found you still have to tweek injector timing. Unless you can log the exact pressure and voltage you hold on the injectors. I thought about using a BAP on the injector voltage feed and setting voltage at a flat 14.5 so I don't have to deal with voltage swings at the track. Plus it will make it easier to adjust the tune.

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Voltage offset takes care of the changing voltages.

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Voltage offset takes care of the changing voltages.
    Right, but what is the difference from rescaling the voltage offset and rescaling all the fueling maps. The last car I did, I used a Ford injector scaling for the 60lb Deka injectors and it worked the best so far for tuning without having to rescale as much. I believe it only took 5% out of the MAF only at lower MAF numbers to get it right. Heck, I could have just pulled a little short-pulse adder and it may have been good. This was on a 2009 Pontaic G8 small cam(217/225-.550/.540"), 1900 running 8psi. Even the VE was within reason. Car ran 11.52 @121.39 @4100+ lbs, stock converter DA+1250. Car still uses the AFM and it works good and stable.

    Attatched are 2 pics of the LTFT after a week of driving and the injector scaling I used. Also used a 1.24 IFR modifier but agree that that doesn't do anything looking at the 63.5 cap.

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Don't do this.
    Don't be so dry Steck.

    Look smokeshow, I advise you either get proper calibration data, or new injectors.

    Here's a thought, just get some ZR1 injectors and Racelogic 12mm extenders for your fuel rails, use the ZR1 cal data, and if you start having over 90% IJDC bump the fuel pressure and raise your flow rate modifier by the corresponding amount. I'm not a fan of Ford anything, or better known as Fuc**ng Old Rebuilt Dodge, and having to use those goofy ass EV connection adapters from Ford style to GM style is bullshi*. Just my .02 (IMO are you just running turbo and no supercharger now? If you are, the ZR1 injectors should place you right where you wanna be.) They're 52.5 lb/hr at 58psi. <------ AS STECK INFORMED.
    Last edited by IDRIVEAG8GT; 03-18-2011 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Fucked up injector crap.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    Cool, thanks for the info. Is the offset for those 67lb injectors higher or lower at the top, like you were saying? That alone might be enough to steer me in the right direction...
    Was this question for me?
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  12. #32
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G8-4-speed View Post
    Right, but what is the difference from rescaling the voltage offset and rescaling all the fueling maps.
    I prefer that my airflow models stay true instead of building error into them to make up for wrong data elsewhere. It makes tuning a lot easier and faster, and makes the engine run more consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    Don't be so dry Steck.

    They're either 53 or 57# at 43.5 psi rail pressure..... I think.
    I'm tired of misinformation being spread like wildfire.

    LS9 injectors flow 52.5 lb/hr at 58psi.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I prefer that my airflow models stay true instead of building error into them to make up for wrong data elsewhere. It makes tuning a lot easier and faster, and makes the engine run more consistent. .
    What? Your fueling maps are already wrong or you wouldn't have to rescale all you airflow maps. The tune is very stable the way is was setup. Not saying what is right or wrong, this was just a better way I found. No one has to like it but me. I do appreciate your input though. Its always good to have some type of feedback.

  14. #34
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    When I put injectors in a car, I make sure the data for them exists. This means when I calibrate the MAF and VE, it's right and isn't absorbing error from bad injector data.

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  15. #35
    I understand your getting the delay, minimums, and adders right but if your injector flow table is wrong then it's no different. You still are correcting for an error. I ran 60 (72.5) lb injector without scaling or raping may PE table. My PE is set to 12.3 and it runs @ 12.1. So whatever error I have is minor.

  16. #36
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    There's nothing special about that. That's how every car I do ends up. Part of the injector data I look for is flow rate, and enter it properly.

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  17. #37
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    I figured it out. Thanks guys.

  18. #38
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    Just trying to understand what you ended up doing to correct the issue. I have the same injectors going in a car ....

  19. #39
    Advanced Tuner Sébast19X's Avatar
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    To the OP , give an eye to the cranking VE Table.
    If it take a long time to start with the new injectors, (including that the injectors have proper data on all the table,) try to put in the 100% value on all row and column to something like 80 %
    Check if it start better. Anyway it should.

    Let us know.

    Seb
    Last edited by Sébast19X; 12-28-2011 at 02:07 PM.
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  20. #40
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    Update, because I've had a question on it... The fix was getting proper data from the calibrated success dvd and making a few changes to cranking VE. Spent a few minutes tweaking things and never had another problem.