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Thread: LNF Idle and Camshaft Tables

  1. #1
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    LNF Idle and Camshaft Tables

    Hey, I am new to the LNFs. I am looking for advice on the Camshaft tables, whether to leave them stock or to change table to help with idle on my car. Modification list- ZZP manifold, Borg Warner T04E (P/N 171443) turbo, downpipe, no cat, 3" exhaust, ZZP intercooler, Hahn Piping with MAF before turbo, 3 bar MAPs plug&play in intake and charge pipe, Forged Rods, Wiseco Pistons, ARP head studs, 93 octane. And what is best for the MAF correction table?

  2. #2
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    Watch the videos posted here, that will get you started. Then there are some excellent threads about cam tuning and most important for idle would be the Optimum Spark tables.

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    The car only on cold startup is really rough, once it warms up it idles real nice. STFT is normally no higher than 6-7%. The Variable Camshaft tables are stock and the Optimum Spark tables are stock.

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    Do you have cat warm up on or off? Like mkriebs mentioned, watch the videos and get your stft's within 1%. Watch the MAF tuning video(s) to get the trims within 1%.

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    JimmyS, I have the cat warm up off. Where are the videos posted on here for me to view?
    Thank you.

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    Here a log of the car this morning. It will do this every first cold startup. I have noticed once the exhaust camshaft angle comes down to 0* on idle it will smooth out nicely.
    Thank you.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    If you are curious of how it acts once it warms up, here is another log cold start and then let it idle until it got warmed up.
    Thank you.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    The videos can be found here: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...357-LNF-Guides

    I suggest watching the MAF calibration with pics for starters. Make sure that you have your cams parked at idle. 10* for the intake cam and -6* for the exhaust cam.

    You could probably add some timing as well as you are fluctuating from -1* to over 16* and throughout both logs, I never saw it flatline. Make sure you read the threads on timing, optimum spark and optimum torque. Once you've read them, adjust your tables accordingly and make sure that they are all smooth.

    There's lots of good information in the videos and while I'm not as knowledgable as a lot of other members here, I did read through them all at least a dozen times and have my setup just the way I want it. (For today anyways....
    Last edited by JimmyS; 12-15-2014 at 10:26 AM.

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    Yeah I noticed the timing as well. My timing table in main spark tables 600rpm 20% load- 28*,600rpm 30% load-24*, 1000rpm 20% load- 32*, 1000rpm 30% load- 27*. And actually ignition timing in the scan at operating temperature 800-820rpm 22-23% load- min2* to max6*.
    Thank you.

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    You will be able to get it pretty much flat lined when you start working on the tune. So many different tables work together so changing just one, like main spark tables probably wont make a difference until you start working with the optimum spark and optimum torque tables. Make sure that you read the posts on these a few times to understand how to make the changes you want.

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    Thank you for all the advice JimmyS.

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    Mark,
    I didn't open your log files but it sounds like u have the problems I had when I turned off cat-warm-up. Even though you turned off cat warm up it seems that the ecu still uses the cat-warmup cam tables which are very aggressive on overlap. Change the cat warmup cam tables of both idle and cat warmup table to the same values as main idle warmup, basically -6 and 10, which is parked cams.
    Secondly add some degrees in the idle region of the opti-spark tables as others have suggested, and as others have suggested read those threads.
    At least that's what I did.
    Oh and I did add some rpm to idle speed vs. Ect since my daily driver has to purr even at 0 degree F. ... fricking michigan...

    Not sure this is right or wrong, that's just how I solved my cold idle oscillation.
    Last edited by TurboCobalt; 12-19-2014 at 11:21 PM.

  13. #13
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    This is pretty much an issue with the OEM cam timing tables, as well as optimum spark and optimum torque. This is normal for the LNF. Some fine tuners here have been able to damn near perfect the idle of the LNF and were willing to share with the masses. My idle timing fluctuates MAYBE 3* in normal weather, but now that it is under 20*F it's started to fluctuate again. I also have an ECM issue that I need to get resolved, but regardless, it is absolutely possible.

    Jimmy pointed you in the best direction. This board is not full of spoon feeders, but we are certainly glad to be helping. The videos state almost everything, so we don't need to keep reiterating it, but as issues arise we like to troubleshoot as a community, that way we all learn. As turbocobalt said, I did add about 50 rpm to my idle.

    Hope this is helpful.

  14. #14
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    Hate to jump in here again with another teaser with no detailed explanation, but like Matt said, all the info is on here you just have to find it. And if you can't find it, I personally have been super impressed with how the LNF tuning community on here has stayed helpful. Thanks guys for keeping up the good work!

    I have so many irons in the fire right now all I can do is post this video showing what CAN be done about cold starts and idling on an LNF. If I can do it, you can too. At this point I actually don't have a problem just posting up my entire tune, but it's been almost 2 years since I made it's last modifications and honestly I'm not even sure what I did in half of the tables! And what I did has probably been perfected better now anyway.

    Here you go guys, this is on E47, probably at the ~500whp/500wtq stage of my LNF's life as a daily driver. It sat overnight and the video says 40 degrees ambient temps. This is typical of how my LNF started and idled cold, hot, just about all the time. Enjoy!



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    I'd like to see your tune John. I know there are so many different ways to accomplish things and have at least 50 tunes from 2 different tuners and 50 of my own tunes now. I never even knew that there was a cold start issue until I purchased a tune from a tuner. Every time I get the chance, I try something different though I haven't had a lot of free time recently due to family health issues.

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    I would enjoy seeing it, too. If for nothing else to see what might be different from the ways I am currently doing it. I think we have spoke enough that I am doing it at least NEAR what you were doing, but I bet I could learn a few things.

    That said, I am still having my ECU issue, won't get around to fixing that til spring. Hoping to have a large EFR on the car within the year, though...

  17. #17
    Basically what was said above. Set all (4) intake cam idle tables the park position, +10°, and all (4) exhaust cam idles tables the same, -6°. Copy and paste one intake cam table to all (5) intake cam tables including knock. Repeat for exhaust cam table.

    When you start it up, baby it until it warms up. Buttery smooth idle depends on a balance between your OS and MS tables in the idle area. If you read up and run the OT table at all 100% like I do you'll have to go back and start over later on the idle. Couple threads on getting the MAF dialed in at idle with different loads.

  18. #18
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    Best advice I ever took from John was running with STFT only...

    Back on track here - After getting the cams squared away, with my Delta, I've found bumping the idle RPM up to 850ish and massaging the MS and OS tables to be the most helpful (Thanks CBD!). Make sure you're dialing in fuel trims as well as experimenting with some DAL massaging in the idle areas (I've found this to be especially important with the A/C on to prevent hunting).

    This is essentially what you're looking for, once you find the sweet spot for you ride. At idle, I sit at 2-3% on the TB and timing hovers from 14-16.50*

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    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

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    Understanding how timing works in the idle range will help you understand timing in all areas. Lots of people ask why they don't see what they have entered in their table or they ask why it bounces up and down. Getting idle smooth is a good lesson into how other parts of the tables work. Also like Tman said other tables like DALs play a role as well.

  20. #20
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    I have my timing much higher at idle, is there a preference to where to set it? I think I typically run 24*, it hunts from 22-24, but mostly at 24. Lately, in the cold weather, I have a butter smooth cold start, but it starts hunting when the engine warms up. WTF?