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Thread: Poor Man's Racelogic Traction System

  1. #21
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    All I've got loaded right now is 2007 Corvette, and it isn't there. My car is sitting in the woods at my buddy's house right now. Haha.

    I guess I could plug into my Trailblazer but that's not what I care about.

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  2. #22
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    I don't have any logs because I have been playing with my Aeroforce Interceptor which occupies the ALDL but since making the changes to 1st and 2nd gear using the custom wheel slip PID I have noticed 1st gear bogging when it shouldn't be. Second gear is working pretty well. I can keep my foot in it and it doesn't get away from me until later in the RPM range which kind of makes sense because I am commanding a static torque from 4800 on up but I am making more and more boost as the RPM's come up so keeping the throttle limited to a certain percentage is not enough. I may have to have kind of a bell curve to it.

    I still have yet to develop a firm methodology to tuning these tables but it is working pretty well. I may try it out on my buddy's GTO which is pretty much stock. It'll probably work much better there.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  3. #23
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    make sure to compare the times of previous runs. if the car is getting slower then i would ditch this idea.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    Pretty close. I believe:

    ETC position is the actual throttle blade position.

    ETC desired position is what the PCM is commanding. May not match ETC because the blade has not moved to that position yet or because TC is commanding it be less.

    ETC pedal is the precentage of pedal you're giving it. Does not correlate to ETC directly.

    Sorry, no updates on tuning but I will say I was driving the other day and second gear was pulling like a mofo instead of lighting up.
    What are the PID's for those three? I'm not able to find any traction control PID's on my E40 GTO in the PID list on 2.3 Beta
    Last edited by ArthurJGuy; 01-12-2011 at 03:23 PM.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  5. #25
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    They are under Engine/General.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  6. #26
    Found em!

    With my boost controller wide open I only see 1-2 PSI so I'm thinking that by having little to no boost, launching with little to no timing (and bringing it in progressivly through the RPM range), and using your method I may have hopes of traction on a R compound tire. haha.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  7. #27
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Here's an update. It's "working" but not exactly how I want it. I don't feel like I'm on the edge of traction all the time but I can put the pedal down in first and second and not light them up. Here is a log of some light to light pedal mashes in first gear. You can look at the chart and see where ETC pedal is >70 and the actual ETC position is in the 40's. It still felt like it was nosing over on the top end instead of staying in it. So I'm still figuring out the methodology to tune it but if one wanted to play around with the numbers, maybe just try the numbers the guy suggested in the link in the first page it could work.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Whats weird here is that I see the TC Desired TQ is almost always 60% whereas it used to be 100%. I'm not sure what I changed to make that happen. So the histo to plot the max tq without TC enabled is not working.

    Also something I noticed is it looks like the throttle is being cut back long before TC kicks in.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  9. #29
    I plan on messing with this this weekend.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    So I realized something when I saw that the ETC was being cut back before TC cut in. That means disabling TC does not disable this function. I tried it on the way home. Did a few romps, turned TC off and rumped a few more. The results were the same. ETC was ~40% when ETC Pedal was ~60%. I was under the impression I could just disable TC and have full power but I guess not. That right there may be enough for me to bag this idea.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure you've been adjusting torque management, not traction control.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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  12. #32
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Yea I don't know why I thought that turning of TC would disable it. Drr. This is the only way I can see to do it. I still haven't ironed out how to "tune" it so it keeps you on the edge of traction but it is definitely working (limiting ETC). I wish I understood a little better how it is correlating torque reduction to ETC.

    Anyway, I don't like the idea that I can't turn it off so I don't know how much further I'll pursue it. I'd always be wondering how much power I'm leaving on the table.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    Yea I don't know why I thought that turning of TC would disable it. Drr. This is the only way I can see to do it. I still haven't ironed out how to "tune" it so it keeps you on the edge of traction but it is definitely working (limiting ETC). I wish I understood a little better how it is correlating torque reduction to ETC.

    Anyway, I don't like the idea that I can't turn it off so I don't know how much further I'll pursue it. I'd always be wondering how much power I'm leaving on the table.
    What do you have your TCS method set to? If the TCS is set to ETC and you disable TCS does this still happen?

    I was wondering if using spark would work instead of using ETC but it is unclear if disabling TCS would disable that also.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  14. #34
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    spark is was the pro mod guys use. instant tq reduction

  15. #35
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArthurJGuy View Post
    What do you have your TCS method set to? If the TCS is set to ETC and you disable TCS does this still happen?

    I was wondering if using spark would work instead of using ETC but it is unclear if disabling TCS would disable that also.
    Check out the tune. I'm using the ETC TC method but I'm editing a TM table to implement this. So it seems like the TM is inheriting the TC method but since it's TM, disabling TC does not disable the ETC method. I tested it with the TC on and off and ETC was reduced the same.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  16. #36
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    nvm I am a newbie.
    Last edited by hpfiend; 03-17-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  17. #37
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    *Bump*

    Just checking if this worked out or not.

  18. #38
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    It works but I never finished developing a procedure to find the optimal settings. I kind of gave up when I figured out that disabling traction control would not disable the torque management. I may pick it back up later.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  19. #39
    Tuner hobbesnmina2001's Avatar
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    Hi Bill,
    I found your thread interesting and since my 02 Z06 max torque was factory set 640 ft lb across all gears I looked at my runs from last year seeing around 277 ft lb delivered torque @ ~2700 rpm launch. I ran on street tires so traction is an issue and thats a reasonable rpm for launch without too much spin. I set my torque on 1 st gear to 277 up to 2800 rpms and 320 to 3200 rpms and a simple street launch showed me this has promise!
    Upon thinking about it tweaking at the track might be real worthwhile. An issue with limited traction is if I leave too low the rpms can dip a lot, leave too high and the spin gets out hand and neither helps the 60 fts. Warming up the street tires helps very limited due to the compund being for street. I can see where the trick is limiting the torque enough to limit wheel spin and launch at a tad just higher rpm to dip into the torque controlled range, then just add enough torque in the next 400 rpm block to keep acceleration moving at a good clip until traction is not an issue. I ran in competition mode and cant power shift into second because the tire spin just breaks traction again so limiting the torque in that rpm range the engine dips too might help that as well! It will be a nice experiment for track days!

    thanks

    Carlos
    Last edited by hobbesnmina2001; 05-23-2011 at 12:20 PM.
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  20. #40
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    cool stuff