Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40

Thread: Poor Man's Racelogic Traction System

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968

    Poor Man's Racelogic Traction System

    I was looking into the Racelogic unit but there are apparently issues adapting it to a C6. On top of that it works by cutting injectors and since I'm spraying meth that doesn't really work for me. When researching I found this: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....ontrol-Tuning/

    Some of the terminology is different since it's EFI Live-speak but basically he (swingtan) is tuning the max engine torque vs gear vs rpm table (which, by the way, is maxed out in my stock E40 tune) to cut the ETC back when TC kicks in and tuning it such that it doesn't fall on it's face when it does. This is what I want to do and I want to come up with a methodology to tune it.

    I want to set up a histo that plots the delivered torque against the max torque vs gear vs rpm table when no wheel slip exists. I don't see a wheel slip PID. I tried creating one which was driven wheel speed divided by undriven wheel speed but since my wheels/tires are not the same diameter it didn't work too well. Then I thought I could use "traction control torque" which is a percentage from 0-100% but it doesnt seem to mean the percentage that TC is kicking in. It seems to be a percentage of torque the engine is putting out in relation to desired engine torque, which for me is static at 483 foot pounds. Maybe that is because the TC max torque is set to 479 foot pounds? There is also "traction control desired torque" which is also a percentage and it seems to stay at 100% with my current tune. Now that I think of it I may have turned off TC for these logs. I'll try logging some wheel slip with TC on. That way I could just filter on TC Desired Torque <100% maybe. I need a way to determine that the wheels are spinning. Then the histo will plot the max delivered engine torque against the max torque vs rpm vs gear table and I will plug that into my tune. Figuring out a way to have it plot against that table in all gears is tricky too. I set up a histo using that table and it is only one row. I'm only really concerned with 1st gear right now but once I get it working I would want to do 2nd and 3rd. After tackling that I may need to play with the values in the ETC TPS Max table to get it to kick in enough or not too much.

    I've attached a log and the config I'm playing with if anyone wants to lend a hand.

    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 12-22-2010 at 02:13 PM.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    969
    good luck, i read that thread, seems like it was working, but if i remember, those cars were only bolt on gto/holden's. nothing close to 700whp. I personally dont think ETC control is fast enough to provide consistent results.

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Roswell, N.M.
    Posts
    1,956
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    OK, so filtering on traction control desired torque (pid 4502) seems to work. Still can't figure out a good way to get it to display by gear so I concentrated on first gear. Here is a log from the other day. I got the numbers from histo 11 and plugged them in then I added 25% (I think) to second gear. First gear needs some work, it still lights up, but last night I realized it is working. I was in second gear and the DIC was lit up that TC was active but the engine was not cutting out, the car didn't nose over and the wheels weren't slipping, I was moving forward. I donno why but it took a little bit to sink in that it was working. The attached log is not from then, it's from one of the first runs with the config set up. You can see at frame 990 the deviation between pedal position and ETC.

    Haven't had much time to refine the process over XMAS but it looks hopeful.

    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    So you are simply manipulating the max torque by gear tables, and nothing else?

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    Yes. And I have spark and fuel cut methods turned off and only using ETC. I don't want fuel cut because I spray meth and I just don't want to add spark right now for fear of muddying the waters. I may need to end up tweaking the ETC TPS Max table though, because it doesn't do any limiting above 450# of torque.

    I can't seem to figure out why my desired engine torque is always 483 foot pounds. I have my delivered torque max set at 800. If I can't move it it would seem that metering TC would be immpossible over 483# of torque, which I am making by roughly 4000 RPM.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  7. #7
    In for updates, my car is waiting on a fuel pump so I cannot assist.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  8. #8
    ETC = Actual ETC position
    ETC Desired = What the TCS system is requesting
    ETC Pedal = What your foot is requesting

    Is this correct? Is this on a 0-100% scale?

    ETC appears to default to the lesser of ETC Desired VS ETC Pedal.
    2009 Crystal Red CTS-V A6
    Hennessey CAI, Hennessey 2.55 Upper


    2005 Phantom Black GTO M6
    All stock other than forged shortblock, braided clutch lines, and bushings. CAR IS FOR SALE For sale, $14,000, 65k miles.


    Having a shop build your car is like having a porn star screw your wife. Pick up a chiltons manual and a wrench and learn something.

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    Pretty close. I believe:

    ETC position is the actual throttle blade position.

    ETC desired position is what the PCM is commanding. May not match ETC because the blade has not moved to that position yet or because TC is commanding it be less.

    ETC pedal is the precentage of pedal you're giving it. Does not correlate to ETC directly.

    Sorry, no updates on tuning but I will say I was driving the other day and second gear was pulling like a mofo instead of lighting up.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    So I was playing around with the data I have. I created another histo that plotted the max delivered torque when my custom PID for wheel slip (=[PID.13.MPH]/[PID.8001.MPH]) is less than 1.1 or when the difference in speed of the rear wheels is less than 10% greater than the front wheels. This gave me very different results than looking at the max delivererd torque when TC is not engaged.

    I'm installing an Aeroforce Interceptor and relocating my WB to the a-pillar so the inside of the car is all apart right now. When I'm done I'm going to try the numbers I get from the custom PID histo.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Graz, Austria / Europe
    Posts
    283
    Racelogic does work well with C5 and C6's of all flavours BUT you need 100kOhm resistors in line with the ABS sensing wires or the Bosch ABS gets upset.

    Also important and contrary to C5's, on C6's the ground has to be connected to common ground at the ABS unit.

    I have installed a dozen or so Racelogics into mostly Z06'S and they work well, DO NOT use them with nitrous or serious backfires will happen if you cut injectors.

    Spraying Meth is not so much an issue as long as are below combustible limits inside chamber.

    for any other application this is the fastest acting and best traction / launch / WOT shift control unit on the market. Since it cuts injectors and not retards ignition is instantly back in full power if traction has been reestablished.

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    Well it's reassuring to hear that it can and has been done. There was a debate as to whether spraying meth would be bad in conjunction with the RL system over on corvetteforum.

    The sting of my traction limited loss to a hopped up AWD Porsche has faded so I'm not really willing to part with >$1500 for the Racelogic anymore. If I can get the factory TC tuned to yield anything similar to the RL I'll be happy.

    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 01-05-2011 at 09:52 AM.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    Where'd you get the PID.8001? It doesn't come up in my list.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    I donno if its an E40 thing or a newest beta thing or a little of both but I have it.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    Odd. I have the latest beta, but it didn't show up in my list of available PIDs.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner c.u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Eville, IN
    Posts
    282
    must be the e40 the gto has that pid.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    Thats weird. Finally something I'm glad I have an E40 about.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
    Posts
    905
    I don't see it in my G8, (E38).
    5Liter, what's the name of the PID ? maybe we'll find it with a different name.

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,968
    undriven wheel speed
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    969
    I see it on my Scanner under speedometer, 2006 c6