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Thread: 6L80E TCC Apply Issue Fixed!!!

  1. #81
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    In the 2010 Camaro, The desired slip for 1st gear is populated, with less desired slip in all the remaining gears. i'm on vacations away from the car, but i can't wait to test this next week.

  2. #82
    I will take a look at mine this evening. My car has a Circle D 2800 single disk converter. Attached is my latest tune, please advise of any changes to help with this converter. The car has a procharger and water/meth.

  3. #83
    Can i please have the new beta emailed to me.

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    2002 Camaro SS, Twin S480s
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  4. #84
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    Email support, I'm not sending a 40mb file through email
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

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  5. #85
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    downloading now... guess ill go waste some gas tonight and do some testing.
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  6. #86
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    already much better... been meaning to bring some specs over from the 09.5 g8 apply ramp table, did that along with decreasing the 5th and 6th desired slip...

    Also brought lock up back down to 50mph (was at 60 due to the issues)

    works great now! plan on bringing the slip down a little more.
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  7. #87
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    Very nice shane

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegoat06 View Post
    Very nice shane
    im super happy about this update for real...

    but yea slip now in 5th and 6th is 20 across the board..

    lock up in 5th& 6th is at 48 and unlock is at 46....its working GREAT
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04blackgmc View Post
    im super happy about this update for real...

    but yea slip now in 5th and 6th is 20 across the board..

    lock up in 5th& 6th is at 48 and unlock is at 46....its working GREAT
    I'm confused - wasn't the purpose behind this update to not have any slip whatsoever?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesubfloor View Post
    I'm confused - wasn't the purpose behind this update to not have any slip whatsoever?
    yea commanded slip is 20.... but half the time im seeing 0 slip logged...

    just started messing with it tonight and am very happy with the results...

    next step will be to bring desired slip down to 0.....

    factory tune on the g8's slip is set at 23 on up in 5th and 6th...
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  11. #91
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    The apply ramp will do some to help with pulsating and also how fast the converter locks up. I have my triple feeling better than stock. Something that will help others who are still having pulsating problems is a higher min apply value. Unfortunately this was not added in the latest update, I've tested everything. I have been running multiple min apply values using Trifecta software. The one that seems to be the best is around 25-30 psi on my triple. If we can get Chris at HPT to add this table, anyone having pulsating after the latest update should see a benefit. What I've also done is tune my 3500 stall converter to act like a 2000 stall. By manipulating the desired slip, apply ramp, and min apply, I have generated a daily driver that launches hard. Chris at Circle D is building another test mule for me. This one is going to be a modified single disk that will be easier to tune. Using my latest findings I should get the new 4k stall to act like a stocker during normal driving and be able to pull a 1.5 at the track. Thanks HPT for getting this out, now everyone can start playing.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

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  12. #92
    email sent, thank you
    2002 Camaro SS, Twin S480s
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    The apply ramp will do some to help with pulsating and also how fast the converter locks up. I have my triple feeling better than stock. Something that will help others who are still having pulsating problems is a higher min apply value. Unfortunately this was not added in the latest update, I've tested everything. I have been running multiple min apply values using Trifecta software. The one that seems to be the best is around 25-30 psi on my triple. If we can get Chris at HPT to add this table, anyone having pulsating after the latest update should see a benefit. What I've also done is tune my 3500 stall converter to act like a 2000 stall. By manipulating the desired slip, apply ramp, and min apply, I have generated a daily driver that launches hard. Chris at Circle D is building another test mule for me. This one is going to be a modified single disk that will be easier to tune. Using my latest findings I should get the new 4k stall to act like a stocker during normal driving and be able to pull a 1.5 at the track. Thanks HPT for getting this out, now everyone can start playing.
    You really need to think about what you post, especially when it contains potentially harmful information for people looking to this thread for guidance on how to get their car set up properly. While what you're doing may make the car feel like it has a lower stall, the manner in which you're going about it will result in the clutches burning up prematurely.

    The lockup clutch in a torque converter in many ways works the exact same as a regular clutch in a manual transmission in that it's designed to either be engaged or not and with only minimal slippage. By having it set up like you're proposing, the only way it can achieve the desired effect would be to have it engage much more slowly and by the sounds of it, have it be continually slipping. This would be synonymous with a manual car where you took 13 seconds to engage the clutch from a dead stop instead of the normal 2-3 and then while driving it, constantly having it slip just a little. In the same manner that this would burn up a regular clutch it'll do the same to the clutch in a torque converter because they have only a fraction of the surface material AND they're immersed in hot fluid.

    With your triple disk you might get away with it for a couple of months but if somebody was to try your approach using a single disk it'd probably work well for a few weeks at most before they lost all lockup functionality entirely.

    The stall speed of a converter simply is what it is and cannot be altered through software or any other tuning changes, especially by playing with how the lockup clutch engages.

    Ultimately it is your car and you're free to do with it what you will, but it needs to be put out there that this is not how the TCC lockup was intended to function and by attempting to use it in this manner is a guarantee of having to pull the converter and replace the clutches.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesubfloor View Post
    You really need to think about what you post, especially when it contains potentially harmful information for people looking to this thread for guidance on how to get their car set up properly. While what you're doing may make the car feel like it has a lower stall, the manner in which you're going about it will result in the clutches burning up prematurely.

    The lockup clutch in a torque converter in many ways works the exact same as a regular clutch in a manual transmission in that it's designed to either be engaged or not and with only minimal slippage. By having it set up like you're proposing, the only way it can achieve the desired effect would be to have it engage much more slowly and by the sounds of it, have it be continually slipping. This would be synonymous with a manual car where you took 13 seconds to engage the clutch from a dead stop instead of the normal 2-3 and then while driving it, constantly having it slip just a little. In the same manner that this would burn up a regular clutch it'll do the same to the clutch in a torque converter because they have only a fraction of the surface material AND they're immersed in hot fluid.

    With your triple disk you might get away with it for a couple of months but if somebody was to try your approach using a single disk it'd probably work well for a few weeks at most before they lost all lockup functionality entirely.

    The stall speed of a converter simply is what it is and cannot be altered through software or any other tuning changes, especially by playing with how the lockup clutch engages.

    Ultimately it is your car and you're free to do with it what you will, but it needs to be put out there that this is not how the TCC lockup was intended to function and by attempting to use it in this manner is a guarantee of having to pull the converter and replace the clutches.
    Well let me start by saying ALL 6L80E transmissions as well as a large portion of front wheel drive applications do just that...slip constantly, even to the point of controlling stall. The very premise of adding the desired slip tables is so we can achieve full lockup capability, something the factory saw no need for. The clutch material in new model cars is a woven type designed specifically for slipping. Adding fluid into the equation simply makes the concept that much more beneficial. You cannot compare a manual clutch to todays converters, they are far superior.

    My post is not how to set your car up properly, it is taking GM engineering to the extreme. The custom lining/converter I am testing for Circle D has been running for several months doing exactly what I posted earlier. I have zero degradation in lockup and no increase in temps. I do run a tranny cooler, as should anyone with an aftermarket stall. Again all listed facts are based on splitting open converters.. This is probably why the factory went with a single disk vs a multi.

    In closing GM designed this converter/transmission to slip/control stall. Look at the tables and you will see. They would not offer a 100,000 warranty on a transmission with a converter that slips constantly if they did not do their homework. This is my car and I am running a test mule converter (already mentioned). In a few months I'll yank this one out and throw in a modified single and do exactly the same thing with a stock like converter, only it will have a 4000-4500 stall and use Circle D's custom lining. I've been testing/logging these specific tables for almost 6 months now and have a pretty good understanding on how works. If anyone is having issues I can probably steer you in the right direction as I have with hundreds of people. I will always give honest results and if something isn't working right I'll post immediately.
    Last edited by Waker; 12-08-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
    ya, something isnt right with the tables, if they are at 0 you shouldnt see tcc slip,, also there should be a mph table, becuase in stock form above 60 mph you can tell the tcm keeps the tcc slip very close to 0,, and below that you have like 50+ rpm slip
    This also has something to do with the apply ramp. I beleive the values both in the apply table and slip tables are rates not actuall numbers you would log. I can set 20 or 100 in the DOD slip rpm and what changes is totally dependent on load even while logging the correct desired slip PID.There is allot of manipulation that can be done with the apply ramp table. It is really the heart of the converter tuning.

    I have yet to see if the table allowing for greater than 109.9psi works. Tomorrow I'll run a 100psi min apply that will force the TCM, if able, to apply something well above 109.9. Since the min apply is also an adder, the TCM adds whatever number it deems necessary for commanded slip and slaps it on top of the adder (min apply) regardless of what it is. For example...zero min apply plus 40psi to make zero slip is the same, in the TCM's eyes, as a 40 min apply plus 40psi the TCM says it takes to achieve zero slip. You will of course log 80psi but the TCM only cares about what it thinks it needs, weird huh. I've never seen anything above 109.9 during a log so we'll see if they actually raised the cap or not.
    Last edited by Waker; 12-09-2010 at 10:16 PM.
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  16. #96
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    Even with a min apply of 109.9, I'm only logging 109.9. Either the cap was not raised or VCM scanner does not have the capabilty of logging anything further. So who knows if we are actually getting more with the update.
    Last edited by Waker; 12-10-2010 at 10:12 AM.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

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  17. #97
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    2010 Camaro A6 Launch Control RPM

    Noob here with a stock converter. When I use the launch control (competitive mode, brake, and quick press of throttle to the floor) the rpm goes to 1300. Is this limited by the stall speed of the converter? Or is the TCM disengaging the clutches and then engaging the clutches when the brake is released? If it is the TCM, can the rpm be adjusted up?

    I'm not trying to thread jack, but taking Waker's comment on making his high stall converter act like a stock converter and reversing the logic.
    Last edited by Duke; 12-14-2010 at 03:51 PM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Noob here with a stock converter. When I use the launch control (competitive mode, brake, and quick press of throttle to the floor) the rpm goes to 1300. Is this limited by the stall speed of the converter? Or is the TCM disengaging the clutches and then engaging the clutches when the brake is released? If it is the TCM, can the rpm be adjusted up?

    I'm not trying to thread jack, but taking Waker's comment on making his high stall converter act like a stock converter and reversing the logic.
    If your in competetive mode, the traction control is still on. What you are experienceing is the ECM pulling timing/closing the throttle plate to limit torque. Press and hold your TC button for 7 seconds to turn everything off. Now you can floor it while holding the break and the tires will break loose once the stall is achieved.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

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  19. #99
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    launch control is only on the manual trans cars,, all you are feeling the like wacker said,, just the ecm limiting the throttle and timing to reduce torque,, it is a safety torque mgt than is factory programmed and can be changed when you add a stall converter

    it is not launch control
    Last edited by camaro1; 12-18-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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  20. #100
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    In Competitive driving mode Active Handling and ABS are both enabled, but traction control is shut off. Also it turns out the traction light you get on the dash when you just hit it once.

    You wont be able to launch higher then that on a stock converter.
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