Hp tuners 80lb injectors rich idle....Idea's?

[dark-one]

Working on dialing in my tune and can't seem to get the idle to lean out at all. Consistently idles around 12.2 ish and the mid range and upper range is near perfect as far as the ve table is going. The low end below 40 map is rich rich. Any ideas...feel like i'm missing something here?

[Delft Calais]

Depending on your injector size you could never potentially get it 100% right as some injectors just wont shut down long enough for it. I managed to get my idle pretty good but thats a lot of fine tuning the raf table for it, anything under straight below 0kpa is still rich regardless of what you do, mine comes good again around -15-20kpa but the -15 to 0kpa range wont come good no matter what. Iv tried boost referenced reg aswell but its fueling is not a smooth as working non referenced in my setup, the only thing thats been mention'd to me that i havent tried is to lower my fuel pressure a little to reduce the amount of fuel being passed through the injectors because at min puls width they are just squirting to much, this will require a full retune of the fueling but seeing as my car hasnt been on the road since december i havent been able to try.
My injectors are 80lb@3bar and which is approx 94lb@4bar so obviously they will pass more fuel for the given time of being open and this also would mean they would be passing more fuel at min inj pulse width at 4bar vs 3bar pressures so lowering the fuel pressure could help lean the fueling out when youv'e reched your min pulse width and your still showing rich.

All this is based off having the correct inj data in your tune though.
I wont bother with my injectors as my slight rich condition at vacumn doesnt effect the drivability of my car and id also like to keep the head room for the more fuel that 4bar would supply if needed.

[dark-one]

I've heard as well that its not possible to do. Like trying to turn a fire hose down from filling a shot glass. Anything above idle and they work just fine

[Foose04]

I got my 80's to idle like stock, running them at 58psi base pressure and have 14.8-15.3 a/f's. However I am running e85 and it did take some tweaking.

[Zero4488]

What is a safe minimum pulse width to set 60lb injectors to in order to get a better idle condition?

[10SecSleeper]

I have mine idling at 14.7 with the 80lb inj. You need to go to Fuel/ Transient/ Then change the min fuel milligrams to "0.002". This will allow it to lean out on idle.

[robbyredneck]

man there are pages of stuff on idle tuning 80's and no great answers. i got mine to idle like stock and even lean idle if i so choose on 93 @ 40psi. the key is to allow them to trim shorter than the "known" data allows. i know i might get blitzed on this one but the magic bullet for me is offset vs. volts vs. vac. and short pulse adder. i see 1.5 ms on decel and the car doesn't spit sputter or sag to catch up. also not everybody has transient tables so don't be supprised if there are no parameters in there. i've heard it's also easier with a brfpr.

[DSteck]

Or... just use the right data from Greg Banish's disc and change the transient fueling value that 10SecSleeper mentioned... That's the right way to do it.

[robbyredneck]

tried that(alot) and it did'nt work

[Ben Charles]

I will keep that in mind about the min fuel milligrams and lowering the number to lean out idle, interesting.

[DSteck]

tried that(alot) and it did'nt work

Then you have a user error problem. I've used those 80s multiple times with no problem at idle fueling.

[robbyredneck]

Then you have a user error problem. I've used those 80s multiple times with no problem at idle fueling.

notice that i spoke from my perspective addressing the op's question. but now that you mention it, i would like to pose a test; before you assume the problem is between the seat and the keyboard with anybody else. if i send you my tune and you mod my injector data i will pay you,eat crow and bang the gong, but if your(gregs ,which i already own) data does not work i get my money back and you publicly acknowledge that, although empirically correct, does not work in EVERY application. fair?

[KLUG'S SS]

Well if I remember right even Greg himself has come right out and said that it may not be 100% absolutely perfect, but should get you pretty darn close. Speaking of the data that is.

[DSteck]

notice that i spoke from my perspective addressing the op's question. but now that you mention it, i would like to pose a test; before you assume the problem is between the seat and the keyboard with anybody else. if i send you my tune and you mod my injector data i will pay you,eat crow and bang the gong, but if your(gregs ,which i already own) data does not work i get my money back and you publicly acknowledge that, although empirically correct, does not work in EVERY application. fair?

I have no gaurantee that you actually know what you're doing outside of the injector data.

10SecSleeper is a local guy and kind of a pud in my eyes, and I even helped him get his car to idle stoich with the 80s. How? Injector data and modifying the transient fueling value.



There is no valid reason that some people make it work and others dont.

You can send it anyway to dsx.tuning at gmail dot com though. I don't care about money or proving somebody wrong.

[robbyredneck]

your right D you can't really be sure of someones tuning experience outside of raw data and i know you have helped a lot of guys , myself included. i just want it to be known that sometimes you have to do whatever it takes,within sane reason, to get results when proven methods fail. i don't mean to be a dong and i want the gb data to work for me,but it has not. i use as much of it as i can and tune around the hold back.it seems that the common link for most of us that have had no luck is the lack of transient fueling tables.

[DSteck]

If you don't have access to that transient fueling value, then yes, that's a valid reason that the data doesn't work. That transient fueling value is the key to why any set of large injectors won't work.

[Nitroused383]

Hptuners kind of put the minimum fuel pulsewidth in a weird spot with a weird name and it is crucial to adjust this value with big injector. If you do not adjust the min fuel milligram value than you will never get the injectors to go lean in decel or idle. Thats because this min fuel milligram value is min pulsewidth and it will not go low enough with out adjusting it. There is a formula somewhere around here that frost posted up on what the value should be. For the 60lb injectors I use .028 and can go as lean as I need. With the stock .04x value I couldn't get below 2.0-2.2 msec, now they will hit 1.5 no problem.

Gregs data does work, but he fails to include the info needed to adjust the transiet min fuel milligram.

[Ben Charles]

Nitrous thanks for the info, I had changed my fuel min data yesterday to .026. Will post results soon.

[DSteck]

Just drop it to something really low. I change it to 0.002. I've never seen an I'll effect.

[Nitroused383]

Here is the info I was looking for from Frost http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...13&postcount=8

Looks like min puslewidth of the 80's is 1.1msec, so having anything below .034 in your min fuel milligrams should allow leaner idle and decel conditions. I have not had good luck by setting a super low value, seems the injectors try to go too low and misfire.