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Thread: NGK AFX setup ?

  1. #61
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    ok ill take a look at that.

    stupid display they provide is worthless then huh.

    now lets say i wanted to tune e85, that voltage offset does not need to be changed, i just go about making my stoich changes in my tune and continue along?

  2. #62
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    If you setup your scanner to read lambda then you never have to change it again! You just change your tune to the stoich ratio of the fuel you are using!

    To setup a way to log commanded lambda, make a custom PID that is 1/EQ Ratio and that is commanded Lambda!

    I just updated the "Wideband Setup" spreadsheet to give a dummy check of the voltage outputs of the new transfer function it spits out. It calculates at what voltage is alway's stoich and gives you the readings at that voltage point to verify it is setup correctly!
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  3. #63
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    The beta version has the NGK AFX preconfigured as a wideband choice and the output matches my other wideband that manually configured inside HPT at least I don't even look a the screen on the NGK.

    I just don't know how its configured on the back end.
    Last edited by FormulaLS1; 06-18-2011 at 08:47 AM.

  4. #64
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    just want to double check my setup, commanded stoich is 14.62857...is this right for reading lambda in the scanner?

    Volts + 9.069
    .712




  5. #65
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    to read lambda, it should be

    Volts / 10.41667 + 0.62
    -Scott -

  6. #66
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    Oh ok....what I have there will show afr, won't it....i got it

  7. #67
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    I have the same as Formula LS1 I have the beta version of the program and it has it as an option. So does that mean that its pre configured or do I need to go in and configure it like Greg says in his disk? He shows the step by step on how to do the custom configuration. I had clicked on the NGK/AFX wideband selection. I saved it and did not get my wideband installed in my car and it was spark knocking alot. Then it dawned on me that it was saved that way. So it is doing something in there.
    03 Z06 Magnacharger, Borla stingers with XP Stainless Headers,KB Boostpump, 42 lbs injectors, 160 stat. CAI3.TPS Motorsports 427 Shifter. AFX Powerdex wide band. TIC clutch master.Monster stage3 with 18 lbs flyweel. AFX wideband. 10LBS boost. ALKYCONTROL methanol injection. DTE Trans Brace, Built MN6, NGK Iridium 7IX , 2 Bar MAP.
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  8. #68
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    I have a trick performance wideband conected to my nitrous progressive programmer.
    I would like to keep the setup, as I use the reading as a safety cut off for the nitrous.


    I am not as knowledgable as everyone here.
    The sensor is Bosch I believe stoich is 14.68

    I have 2 choices for my output to HP

    Gray wire AFR Linear
    1.) 0V out =7.35
    5V out =22.37

    Tan wire
    0.5-4.5 volt curve 10-20 AFR

    what would be my formula in HP user defined voltage offset & which wire should I use?

    V
    _ + ?
    ?

    I have been struggling with this all day I cannot seem to get the adjustment correct. Any help would be greatly appreciated
    Last edited by cbloveday; 07-06-2011 at 10:59 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by eficalibrator View Post
    Without reading through every single post in this thread, let me just make a few key points to help keep everyone on track:

    1) ANY wideband really measures lambda, regardless of what the display says. Most just multiply the lambda value by a reference number that most of the performance enthusiasts are familiar seeing. (14.7 for many, 14.56 for the NGK AFX)

    2) Yes, there is a difference in display resolution when looking at two digits of lambda vs AFR, but the analog (or serial) output should still have much greater resolution than you'd ever need. Stop looking at the unit's display and just make sure you're bring LAMBDA into your logger properly.

    3) When setting up your logger, just input the conversion from analog input volts to lambda and forget about AFR. (I'm repeating this for a reason.)

    4) The sooner you drop the security blanket of AFR and start using Lambda like the big boys, the sooner you'll be able to make it on the tuning playground of life. AFR opens the door for confusion based on fuel blends. Lambda stays consistent when taking measurements. (Just make sure you've defined the stoich point in the PCM properly!) Make your calculations and corrections in units of lambda and lambda error and it will make your life easier in the long run.
    I'm sorry for the noob questions because I used to catch on to tuning back when I did it, but I have a headache and can't think right now.

    If I log in lambda, how do I take that data(such as values of .85 lambda) and correct my MAF calibration? Would I have to reconvert the lambda back to AFR somehow?
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  10. #70
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    Guess just make a custom PID that takes the lambda output and converts to AFR?
    2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS

    Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado

  11. #71
    Actual lambda divided by commanded lambda gets correction factor.

    Actual lambda of .90
    Commanded lambda of .85

    .90/.85 = 1.058823529411765

    Multiply the MAF by the value above to add the extra airmass you need.

    Ignore the AFR value.

    Ryan

  12. #72
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    Ah, you're right. Thanks, Ryan. Same thing as the air fuel correction just instead of using AFR for values I'm using Lambda...man I'm dumb sometimes
    2012 Chevy Cruze A6 1LT RS

    Formerly - 2004 GTO, 2002 Z28, 2007 Colorado, 2008 Silverado

  13. #73
    I'm gonna try the calculations for the 14.2 setup. All we have here is E10 so I think will work best. Other then that all I need to change is the stoich value in the tune and I'm good to tune away on the VE?
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  14. #74
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Ok I setup my AFX in HPTuners with both Lambda and AFR, and verified by allowing the AFX to warmup when it outputs 1 for lambda, and compared that to my HPTuners reading:

    Lambda: V/10.42+0.62 and I get 1.0 reading in HPTuners ... Perfect.

    AFR: (DSTeck recommendation for 14.68 stoich) V/0.7096+9.102, and I get only 14.60afr in HPTuners so I know the "calculated" formula for AFR is off a bit.

    This is some of my problem with the scanner reading only 14.5AFR when cruising and stoich set at 14.68.

    Anybody know the best way to fix that?

    Should I just shift the offset to match 14.6-7? I cant figure out how to get the actual min/max voltage out of my AFX so I can build my own formula and I don't want to log just Lambda cause I'm not smart enough to figure out how to convert Lambda to work with all of the AFR tables, and show AFR in HPTuners, plus I will never have this out of this car, and I'll always have normal gas, so I'd prefer a simple AFR reading.

    EDIT:
    I may have found settings that work.
    I tried two other user's recommended settings (for a total of 3) and came up with this:
    AFR: 0.678+9 = 14.76AFR
    AFR: 0.709-9.068 = 14.58 (same as the unit's display value)

    So, since what I needed was right in the middle of these two, I averaged both values together and came up with this:
    AFR: 0.6938+9.051 = 14.67-14.68. Also, Right after it outputs 1 lambda, I'm thinking it drops low, and that value is 9.06, which I believe the unit's low is 9.10?, then it appears to go high but I didnt take my sensor out of the pipe so I'm ignoring that value since stoich is right.

    So according to all of this (and if my low 9.06 assumption is correct) then this is perfect for me: 0.6938+9.051

    EDIT AGAIN! BTW yes the Unit goes low (0.62 Lambda) right after it goes 1 lambda... so just cycle the power and tweek the Formula in HP Tuners until you get it right. I dialed in two readings and cycled the AFX until both low and Stoich (14.68) matched perfectly. Very simple and extremely accurate. My final numbers are: V/0.6992 (14.68AFR) + 9.095 (9.10ARF)
    Last edited by 10_SS; 10-08-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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  15. #75
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    Hey guys ... I just bought a Ngk afx... i have read all the threads on this ... my issue is

    For some reason if i measure the output voltage of the afx by itself its 3.xx when connected to hptuners it goes to 4.xx .... there for no matter which values I enter its always off.??

    any help is appreciated thanks

  16. #76
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    It seems that hp tuners box is adding 1 volt

  17. #77
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HyeSpeeder View Post
    It seems that hp tuners box is adding 1 volt
    can you just follow this procedure I posted above? Or will this not work? Takes less time than any other procedure, and is more accurate.

    "...the Unit goes low (0.62 Lambda) right after it goes 1 lambda... so just cycle the power and tweek the Formula in HP Tuners until you get it right. I dialed in two readings and cycled the AFX until both low and Stoich (14.68) matched perfectly. Very simple and extremely accurate. My final numbers are: V/0.6992 (14.68AFR) + 9.095 (9.10ARF)"
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  18. #78
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    hey guys, id hate to bump an old thread but I recently purchased a ngk powerdex kit PN 96604 and apparently this sensor reads 9-20afr .5-4.5v and im having trouble setting this up. anyone else run into this issue? am I missing something here? im getting literally 3points difference in afr from scanner vs ngk display.

  19. #79
    Advanced Tuner umrjmac's Avatar
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    How do you have the transfer function in HPTuners configured? The generic NGK AFX will not work since it was for the older model that reads a more narrow range. You'll have to build your own transfer function to support that. There are a number of threads here that walk through that.

    If you did build your own transfer function already, post it up. Also, at least with the old model, when it starts up it outputs 3 different voltage readings during the cycle representing min, stoich, and max. If the new one does that too, what voltages are you observing through HPTuners? if they are way off you could have a grounding issue.
    Kenne Bell Supercharged 2003 Corvette Z06

  20. #80
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    I was trying to make heads or tails out of the formula posted in the FAQ section (copy/paste below). I must be retarded.

    Can someone point out where my math is screwed up? Volts / 0.0257 + 2.5 can’t be right…..


    How the Formula in the EIO section Works

    The Formula in the EIO (AUX) section is called a transfer function.

    It works by you telling it a step value, and then telling it an offset from 0.

    Things you need to know to figure out the formula for the device you are trying to use in the EIO section
    A) Voltage Maximum of the Device being used
    B) Value Represented by the (Volts=0) of the Device being used
    • If the device does not output 0 Volts, then you need to use math to figure out what value 0 volts would equal.
    C) Value Represented by the Voltage Maximum of the Device being used

    Formula is: (A)/(C-B) +B


    NGK AFX
    0.5 Volts = 9.0 AFR
    4.5 Volts = 20 AFR
    0 Volts = (4.5 - 0.5) / (20 - 0) = 0.2
    0.5 / 0.2 = 2.5
    0 Volts = 2.5 AFR
    4.5 Volts = 20 AFR
    Volts Max = 4.5
    AFR Represented by 0 Volts = 2.5 AFR
    Max AFR = 20
    Max Volts = 4.5
    4.5 / (20 – 2.5) = 0.257
    Volts / 0.0257 + 2.5
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....