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Thread: NGK AFX setup ?

  1. #41
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baezi z06 View Post
    so if i´m trying to reach the mark 14.68 stoich
    can i change some numbers to reach that?, so that when lambda reading is 1.00 then it equals 14.68

    is this not possible???

    Baezi
    Lambda of 1 means 14.68 for pure gasoline.

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Lambda of 1 means 14.68 for pure gasoline.
    ok thanks....++


    baezi

  3. #43
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    This thread hurt my head,

    I am commanding 14.4 as stoich (split the difference for "May contain up to 10% Ethanol").

    When setting up my NGK through the scanner how should I proceed if I want to use lambda for tracking fueling errors considering I am not commanding lambda 1.00 ?
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  4. #44
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxTriode View Post
    This thread hurt my head,

    I am commanding 14.4 as stoich (split the difference for "May contain up to 10% Ethanol").

    When setting up my NGK through the scanner how should I proceed if I want to use lambda for tracking fueling errors considering I am not commanding lambda 1.00 ?

    Lambda 1.0 is always Stoic...it doesnt matter what fuel you use.

    if you set 14.4 as your stoic, then 14.4 is you r Lambda 1.0

    tuning by Lambda means that you always shoot for 1.0, and it doesnt matter what the AFR value is
    -Scott -

  5. #45
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    perfect

    thanks
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer View Post
    Lambda 1.0 is always Stoic...it doesnt matter what fuel you use.

    if you set 14.4 as your stoic, then 14.4 is you r Lambda 1.0

    tuning by Lambda means that you always shoot for 1.0, and it doesnt matter what the AFR value is
    Quick question, well two actually.

    1) what should the V/?+? be for 14.4AFR

    2) How do I configure the scanner for for WOT tunning using Lambda. (I can't believe how many unsupported PID/SEN there are for my OS)
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  7. #47
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxTriode View Post
    Quick question, well two actually.

    1) what should the V/?+? be for 14.4AFR

    2) How do I configure the scanner for for WOT tunning using Lambda. (I can't believe how many unsupported PID/SEN there are for my OS)
    If you read the thread, you could answer both questions (the first would require some work on your end in the math though). Since I'm bored right now...

    1) 0.62 lamda for 14.4 stoich is 8.928 AFR. This ends up being your adder. The divisor is just 5/(14.4*0.48). The 0.48 comes from the range of the AFX (.62-1.1). This makes the divisor 0.72338. So it becomes V/0.72338+8.928.

    2) Really? I posted the equation in this post: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...7&postcount=37

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    If you read the thread, you could answer both questions (the first would require some work on your end in the math though). Since I'm bored right now...

    1) 0.62 lamda for 14.4 stoich is 8.928 AFR. This ends up being your adder. The divisor is just 5/(14.4*0.48). The 0.48 comes from the range of the AFX (.62-1.1). This makes the divisor 0.72338. So it becomes V/0.72338+8.928.

    2) Really? I posted the equation in this post: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...7&postcount=37
    Thanks for the reply, I had figured it out prior to reading your response.
    My issue was clearly my understanding of lambda. Once you set what lambda 1.00 is anything outside of that is just the ratio of stoich. I had my ahhh hhha monent when I was doing the math.

    So to make it easier to understand for anyone else who may read this:


    The range of the NGK/AFX in Lambda is .62-1.1 (.48)

    Multiply the lowest value of the range ( .62) by Stoich (14.4 commanded in my case)

    .62*14.4= 8.928 (lowest output)

    Next take max output voltage (5v) and divide it by [(commanded) stoich * range (.48)]

    5(v) / 14.4 (stoich) * .48 (range) = 0.72338

    You end up with

    V
    _____ + 8.928

    0.72338


    Again thanks for the help!
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  9. #49
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    The biggest hurdle people have is understanding the concept of lambda and what the gauge is actually reporting.

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  10. #50
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    If you guys want to simplify it further you could just use the lambda function and then create a PID for afr that multiplies the lambda by the current stoich ratio of your calibration. This exact reason is why I try to tune everything in lambda!
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  11. #51
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Here is a spreadsheet I made to help aid in getting the logging correct

    If there are any flaw's that I overlooked please let me know and I'll correct them.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by LSxpwrdZ; 06-23-2016 at 01:26 PM.
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  12. #52
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    Here is a spreadsheet I made to help aid in getting the logging correct

    If there are any flaw's that I overlooked please let me know and I'll correct them.
    I've found that using the lambda range instead of the AFR range from the NGK works better when making a transfer function. The output voltage of 1 lambda ends up being right where you'd predict it to be using the lambda range to generate the equation instead of the AFR range.

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  13. #53
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I've found that using the lambda range instead of the AFR range from the NGK works better when making a transfer function. The output voltage of 1 lambda ends up being right where you'd predict it to be using the lambda range to generate the equation instead of the AFR range.
    The thing is my spreadsheet comes up with the same lambda range that the instruction pamphlet says as well. Mine says it has a range of 0.62-1.10 Lambda and my spreadsheet has the same range using the afr range as well.

    9afr/14.57stoich=0.6177

    16afr/14.57stoich=1.0981

    when rounded to 2 decimal places that is .62-1.1

    The reason I use the afr scale to figure out the slopes and adders in the spreadsheet is because it has more resolution than just using the 2 decimal point lambda scale included with "some" widebands. Furthermore the transfer function for afr is given in the pamphlet as well as being 1.4*Volts + 9 and that also gives me the same data as calculated above.
    Last edited by LSxpwrdZ; 06-08-2011 at 12:58 AM.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxTriode View Post
    Next take max output voltage (5v) and divide it by [(commanded) stoich * range (.48)]

    5(v) / 14.4 (stoich) * .48 (range) = 0.72338
    I'm setting up my new NGK, and I can't come up with the same numbers as you posted above.

    5/14.4*.48 gives me 0.166667. But if I use 5/14.4/.48 then I get your .723379...are we supposed to divide by the voltage range instead of multiply?

    To confirm, my stoich is 14.628...
    .62-1.1=0.48
    .62*14.628=9.0694 (lowest input)
    5/14.628/.48=0.7121

    So the formula is V/.7121+9.0694 for me, correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer View Post
    I went into the scanner config to program mine since the scanner will only allow 4 total digits with a decimal...
    How do I access the scanner config to use more than 4 total digits? I'm using the beta.
    Last edited by JimMueller; 01-10-2011 at 03:11 PM.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimMueller View Post
    I'm setting up my new NGK, and I can't come up with the same numbers as you posted above.

    5/14.4*.48 gives me 0.166667. But if I use 5/14.4/.48 then I get your .723379...are we supposed to divide by the voltage range instead of multiply?

    To confirm, my stoich is 14.628...
    .62-1.1=0.48
    .62*14.628=9.0694 (lowest input)
    5/14.628/.48=0.7121

    So the formula is V/.7121+9.0694 for me, correct?



    How do I access the scanner config to use more than 4 total digits? I'm using the beta.

    The last part of the formula is wrong:

    Take (14.628*.48) first
    14.628*.48=7.02144

    Now take 5/7.02144=.71210

    v
    ______ + 9.0693
    .71210
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  16. #56
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    Im using
    Volts/.7095 + 9.102

    I thought this was the correct ratio?

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  17. #57
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Charles View Post
    Im using
    Volts/.7095 + 9.102

    I thought this was the correct ratio?
    If stoich is set to 14.68, then that is correct.

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  18. #58
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    Yep thats what my PCM says 14.68, thanks

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  19. #59
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    i was just going thru this thread, as i did use the canned ngk setting in hptuners for the afx unit.

    correct me if im wrong, but every time you change your stoich value you have to setup the wideband offset for this?

  20. #60
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    No actually you will want to use Volts/.709 + 9.068

    Reason:
    Stoich for HPTuners is 14.68 but you don't setup the afx to read 14.68 on its display as stoich. The afx will always display 14.57 when its at stoich so you want the VCM scanner to read the analog output as 14.68 when the actual display on the wideband itself reads 14.57.

    This is why I made the spreadsheet above to simplify everything. I've set it up with multiple different stoich ratios with different fuel types and it works perfectly! This is also why I tune everything in lambda so I don't have to worry about afr's with different fuel types.

    A similar explanation would be E85. You would set your tune up with a stoich of ~9.7 however the afx will still read 14.57 on its display when your at stoich but you can setup the scanner to read 9.7afr from the analog of the afx when the afx display reads 14.57. Use the spreadsheet and never look back!
    Last edited by LSxpwrdZ; 06-07-2011 at 11:42 PM.
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