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Thread: LNF Ethanol experiment

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    LNF Ethanol experiment

    I've pm'd and emailed a few about this, been playing with it this week.

    I'm currently running a blend of 25% Ethanol to 93 Octane and my LNF likes it a bunch.

    Had to trim the MAF freq about 4% leaner (no LNF stoich tables) to adjust for the positive LTFT shift. I've increased the midrange high load timing a few degrees and I'm at 18* up top even with 120* IAT2's in 99* ambient, no KR!

    No midload/rpm KR and I used to see 2-3* most days same tables.

    Injection window is 5.6 ms at 6k I'm told (thanks Term & Steddy!) and I'm seeing about 5.2 ms at 70* ambient, less as the air gets thinner.

    Looks like I've gained about .4 sec on the 60-100 mph ricer runs in third.

    MPG dropped 1 mpg on the average. I've got about 300 miles logged on this so far.

    Next week I'll up it to 35% & check the injection window once again.

    Running a PE of .88, but going to try .84 to see if it changes anything, maybe add more timing yet. I've read 25* advance is about it on an LSJ, so I'll keep that in mind. I really wish I could just run E85, but it's becoming obvious it won't make it with the DI window.


    Discuss
    Last edited by Iam Broke; 07-25-2010 at 06:54 PM.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    I would try running a bit richer as well. I know the stoich and WOT AFR for E85 is quite a bit different so injecting 25% of it would make me think you need to do the same to your AFR. Just my thoughts (which you know since I emailed it the other day lol)

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Ya, Imagonna. I'd think if I was too lean I'd be getting some KR though, not less. I forgot to post that I'm at .977 cruise lambda. (PE 80% & lower columns) 90% PE column splits the difference.

    The wideband is compensating for the difference in stoich by increasing injector duty, hense the positive LTFT shift.
    Last edited by Iam Broke; 07-16-2010 at 01:05 PM.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    New tune, 20* up top, added 2-3 degrees advance in upper midrange and lowered PE lambda to .852. More tomorrow.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner Gimpster's Avatar
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    Very nice sir.

    Finding E85 is very tricky in Topeka in Iowa it was at every station basically.

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    E85 won't work, I think he's mixing straight ethanol with straight 93 pump. sorta making E25 or something.

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner Gimpster's Avatar
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    Ahhh.. well he does work for a fuel company, so perhaps he's getting his hands on barrels of E98 I was just stupidly assuming he was guestimating with putting some E85 in and then gasoline in. Lot of folks do that stuff.
    Last edited by Gimpster; 07-16-2010 at 07:34 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    I'm using E85 & E10 and blending the ratios in increment batches. Gimp wins the chicken dinner!

    By volume, 6:1 E10 to E85 is 26.26% Ethanol if I calculated it out correctly. If I could get it out of the refinery, I'd just add Light Ultraformate. (octane)

    5:1 is ~30% and 4:1 is ~35% E by volume.

    E85 is pretty common in dem dar corn states. There is an ethanol plant ~20 miles from me.

    LTFT's settled in at zero today on the ride home, no KR and faster times so far.
    Last edited by Iam Broke; 07-25-2010 at 06:55 PM.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner Gimpster's Avatar
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    I just looked online and there are 2 stations listed as E85 in town after all. Will have to do some fiddling around too just not at like EVERY station like it is in Iowa here.

  10. #10
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    so 6gal gas to 1gal e85? I need to figure out how to tell which gas stations have e10 and which are straight fuel...

  11. #11
    It will say up to 10% ethonal on the pump. At least it does here in mn. Good luck with the experiment. I will be watching this thread.
    E-85 279.5whp/258tq

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    The state I live in doesn't require any labeling, some do. I forget where I saw a list. Google it maybe.

    If you live around a large metro area within 50 miles, odds are it is E10. It's splash blended by the terminal tech into the tanker in most places so it doesn't absorb water before it's shipped so the accuracy is only as good as the system they use. (flowmeters, ect.)

    E10 can be 5.5 to 10 percent just like E85 is only required to be 70%min E though.

    Doing the best I can on the ratios with what I have to work with.
    Last edited by Iam Broke; 07-17-2010 at 06:56 AM.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  13. #13
    I posted this in the other e85 thread http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/s...test-tube.html , it's a QuickFuel ethanol tester,all marked and ready to use,tells you exactly how much gas/ethanol is mixed,just need a little water...

    Gimpster,just noticed your in Topeka,I'm right on the South edge of Wichita ( got a '08 Sky Redline and a turbocharged Sunfire Convertible). There's an Ethanol plant just about 10mi. to the northwest of Wichita,if your interested I might be able to hook you up with a barrel of e98.

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link, I don't mind the ~$15 for the tester, but they want over $10 to ship it one state north. I'll keep it in mind though.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

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    This is a pretty cool experiment 'Broke!

    I've thought about being experimental and running toluene... I ran it in my GTO and found that I was able to run more timing (3 degrees, for a total of 27) and actually picked up 1.x mph @ the track in the summer heat.

    I'm just unsure of how this will affect things with the LNF.

    Sounds like this "blending" of fuels could be promising for those of us with E85 available?

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Looks like it to me. I'd be leary of the tolulene or xylene myself.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iam Broke View Post
    Looks like it to me. I'd be leary of the tolulene or xylene myself.
    Can I ask why? I've never heard of any factual reasons as to why to be leary other than "it can eat your fuel lines and seals".

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    Toluene is a very powerful solvent that can eat o-rings, silicone, rubber, fuel lines and seals. Also corrodes some metals if I remember right.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene

    Read the uses section.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  19. #19
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    grand national guys have been using zylene blends for years , its 118 octane and present in most premium gasoline allready if you look at a M.S.D.S.

    they say to add a capful of marvel mystery oil if you go over a 4 to 1 ratio - I have always gone 4 or 5 to 1 with no issues but am now spiking my fuel with e85 since its cheaper

    www.e85forum.com is a great place to get e85 info as well as the grand national and modular ford forum seem to be well beyond debating if its a good or bad thing and have moved on to making power both have e85/e98 specific forums and are good places to lurk if you are researching e85 in boosted applications

    www.turbobuick.com

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  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner Gimpster's Avatar
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    96sunfire, I'll keep that in mind but I don't have a place to store a barrel of E98. Maybe if I can find a shop for rent around here. Injecting E98 with an alcohol capable kit would be kinda fun.

    So after driving to the 4 stations listed as having E85 in town I finally found one. All the others either were out of business or had removed the pumps since the list was made @ e85refueling.com. The station that still had it was a Conoco at 29th and Croco if anyone local is reading. I wish the stupid pump would keep going so I don't have to swipe my card twice, but whatever. Oddly enough an Evo9 pulled in and filled up with E85 while I was there hehe.

    They didnt have the pumps labeled as E10 for 91, but I just assumed if they were carrying E85 that it was. I started with 2.2 out of an 11.8 total gallons of E85 today and already I'm pretty impressed.

    98F ambient today and ZERO knock @ 18*. This is something my car was not able to do before on any of the 90/91 around here before. I should try to get to the track this week and see what the trap speed differences are.

    Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this publicly Iam Broke!