LSJ TVS 2.8" Tuning Help

[skatinboarding]

25* is about the limit out motors make power but without meth/e85 you wont have to worry about max timing.

That table looks like a good starting point. I would try to get that little spike around 5500? rpms out of it.

Get your wot afr as close as you can before adding timing. A smooth timing table will help prevent knock and help you get more in there. But you have the general idea of how to get rid of knock, when it knocks take a little timing out but still keep it smooth. Try different gas stations and what not to find the best gas. Remember to always use the same gas or better after the tune too.

[skatinboarding]

Also remember heatsoak will cause knock too.

[csementuh]

Also remember heatsoak will cause knock too.

Thanks for all the info. I will adjust the table a bit to smooth that ripple. How does one know what ranges in the table to adjust timing for? I think that is my biggest question here?, since the table goes in many different ways.

Is there a better way to help solve heatsoak induced knock them to simply lower timing in that area?

Here is the timing table with the hump eliminated...

[skatinboarding]

Looks good.

In the histogram number 1 is your timing advance table. You can see what cells your hitting in that table. If you havent changed your cnf file from it. I didnt check yours.

There is a map in your tune that you can take timing out per iat.

Engine> Spark Control> IAT Spark> Base

But you need to be more concerned about the iat2. Just keep your eye on them. I always have it up on my interceptor.

[383_Stroker]

For what it's worth, yes the 13* of timing is whats killing the power..

My off meth is at 19* and on meth is at 25*ish.. and you can feel the difference, no question..

tvs - 3.1 pulley on mine currently

[csementuh]

Thanks for the info. I have a timing and KR histogram as 1 and 2 on my scanner. My confusion however is where to remove the timing from. I see where the KR hits in which cell, but obviously you can't just remove timing from that one cell or you will have a 'hole' or ripple in your timing map. Is it necessary to remove timing from the whole map, whole side, what bounds to use? For instance I got 1-2 hits max on the lower right cells on my histo, so I need to remove a degree or so and drop to 12.

The question comes down to which is more important, more airflow or more timing..?

On my Interceptor I monitor KR and IAT2's. Also keep an eye on my LC1.

Thanks!

[383_Stroker]

how high are the IAT2s getting (i'm at work and cant check the logs)?

I'm amazed it's still knocking at 13*!

[csementuh]

I only logged my 2.5 miles drive home from work today and my IAT1's were 90 and IAT2's peaked at about 118. I've never had a cooling problem before so I'm not sure why anything would be acting up now.

Yesterday tho my IAT2's were about 150-160 but I can prolly attribute that to running a ton of timing and knocking before I adjusted it.

Today the log showed I believe 0 avg knock but a couple hits of 1 max, and the logs show a little KR during some small WOT pulls.

[skatinboarding]

Try some different gas. I am amazed its knocking at 13 too. Glad I dont have to worry about knock. Keep checking all the gas stations in your commute and keep an eye out for new e85 ones popping up.

The more airflow vs more timing is something to compare on a dyno or which ever feels better for you. Ill say this if your making the same power on a bigger pulley and more timing switch back, it is safer.

[csementuh]

Ya there is definitely no E85 within about 15-20 miles of me, and it's the opposite direction of anywhere I ever drive. I work 2.5 miles from work, so I don't ever go on long commutes really.

I'll have to scan the car some more. I believe I've read that 1 degree of KR can just be phantom KR and nothing to worry about. Do I still need to reduce the timing if the histogram shows 0 avg KR but 1 degree max? What about partial degrees of knock in your graph?

I'd like to stick with the smaller pulley, as I'd imagine it will give more torque and hit the power sooner just like smaller pulleys did on the M62. Eventually I might like to try meth or E85, but right now it just isn't feasible.

Still looking for tuning advice on this however. I know I'm not a very good tuner, but I do have a lot of money tied up in this engine, and I'd like to put it to good use! Thanks!

[skatinboarding]

There is false knock that can be caused by engine movement but if your getting knock throughout the pull its real. I get stupid knock when I let the clutch out at a lower rpm then usual when starting to move.

[csementuh]

OK I did a bit of driving today over lunch because I had to goto the dealer and get my power steering motor replaced under the recall. Anyways, even with the 13* max timing I still got 2-5* of knock! This is a bit ridiculous... Could it be fase knock? I did hear once or twice what sounded like my exhaust smacking off something when I was on the gas? It appears thought that I am getting some KR in the upper RPMs still for some reason. What do I do now? Attached is my updated tune and some logs. Thanks!

[elite_cyborg]

There is false knock that can be caused by engine movement but if your getting knock throughout the pull its real. I get stupid knock when I let the clutch out at a lower rpm then usual when starting to move.

Is there anyway to tune this out?

[csementuh]

Is there anyway to tune this out?

I know there are a bunch of tables concerning the knock sensors, sensitivity, decay, retard, and other things, but I'm not sure if messing with that is a great idea since it could interfere with detecting with real knock. Although I have heard that these cars are a little touchy. I'm sure someone with more experience could chime in.

Anybody have any pointers for me? I want to be able to romp on the car without blowing it up!

[skatinboarding]

Is there anyway to tune this out?

Engine> Spark Control> Spark Retard> Base Retard

you can tell it to not pull timing at certain rpm sections and cancel out the false knock.

[skatinboarding]

I know there are a bunch of tables concerning the knock sensors, sensitivity, decay, retard, and other things, but I'm not sure if messing with that is a great idea since it could interfere with detecting with real knock. Although I have heard that these cars are a little touchy. I'm sure someone with more experience could chime in.

Anybody have any pointers for me? I want to be able to romp on the car without blowing it up!

Do you have solid mounts? You get quite a bit of knock for only 12* of timing.

I also notice you get a lot of knock driving down the road as well. Maybe you got a bad sensor.

Try 7* of timing and see if it still knocks on a quick pull. Other than that I would like to know someone elses views on this.

More fuel can help knock as well.

Could it be something in trq man?

[csementuh]

Do you have solid mounts? You get quite a bit of knock for only 12* of timing.

I also notice you get a lot of knock driving down the road as well. Maybe you got a bad sensor.

Try 7* of timing and see if it still knocks on a quick pull. Other than that I would like to know someone elses views on this.

More fuel can help knock as well.

Could it be something in trq man?

I don't have solid mounts, but I am running the OTTP S1 rotated mounts (front) and the stock LNF mount (rear) with the OTTP spacer. They are both a rubber mount so I've never heard of that causing false knock.

I am running about a 11.6-11.9 PE WOT AFR now, so I'm not sure how much fuel I could run and not be excessively rich...

I swapped back to the stock 80mm TVS pulley and I'm going to see how much timing I can get on that setup. I was running my M62 timing map running 21* before, and I was getting knock. I will start out now using about 16* of timing and see how that runs on the 80mm. I think I'm going to try the OTTP S3 timing map and modify that to my application.

What do you mean by 'could it be something in trq'..?

[elite_cyborg]

Engine> Spark Control> Spark Retard> Base Retard

you can tell it to not pull timing at certain rpm sections and cancel out the false knock.

Ive done this, and it still knocks on takeoff somtimes pulling enough timing to make it buck, i have ran timing all the way down until it bucks when you give it throttle and it still knocks. I Have been driving around on racegas lately and it doesn't help it

[csementuh]

I went back to the 80mm stock TVS pulley and did some tuning tonight.

I was able to get 15* top end timing without knocking. I may be able to add another degree but I haven't tried yet. It did knock pretty bad when I started at 18* however. I still need to do a little bit of work because it seems to be getting a tiny amount of knock down low. It could be false knock off idle like it being described here?

I'll attach the tune and the three bigger logs I did to see if anyone has any ideas on how to make this better.

I'm using my base tune from a tune that my old tuner made for me when I was on a 2.7" M62 setup. Is it possible that he messed with the KR settings or something in the tune to make it behave poorly like it is now? Should I try to use a TVS 'base tune' and copy my injector, maf, ve, timing, etc, settings into it? If so does anyone recommend something to start with?

I am basically just trying to get the car to a point where I have it tuned safely enough that I can flash the tune and leave it without having to log it nonstop and adjust stuff. I want to make some decent power of course with the TVS (300+whp) but I need the tune to be a safe DD tune. Can someone tell me how the tune looks in general? Any help or advice would be appreciated!

[BlackBaltSw]

Dude, just run meth. At the very least you can run a low meth percentage and keep timing relatively low, but you wont have to worry about knock. Your IAT2s will love you, and your car will run awesome. That blower NEEDS octane. Give it to it.