Having problems with tune with 80 pound siemens using Gregs Dvd.

[ALB]

I have Gregs Dvd so guess cant' post the tune . I was running on siemens 60s and the car was running like a dream,idle,decel ,etc all excellent.
Now ever since put in 80s with the value in his dvd things are all whacked. I am getting max short term trims both banks equal full negative. I have tried to lean it in ve and not having much luck just trying idle area first.
As said his 60 data worked perfect. But notice that in his dvd it says 80 cobra injectors. So are these the same as siemens 80s?
Anyone run his tables and have these problems with 80s. Anyone else even running 80s?

Also min pulsewidth is 1.1 ms and even smaller ones like 60s he says to go to .8ms where stock setttings are 1.27 So that 1.1 just seems wrong.

And he doesn't mention if supposed to change default pulse width to same as minimum pulse width.

I was thinkin mabye vacuum leak or something but don't think have one.
And it seems all these problems happened when installed the 80s. As said both banks are matching closely both ltrim or strim.So don't seem to be a problem on one side. And doubt both sides.

[Pekka_Perkeles]

I was thinkin mabye vacuum leak or something but don't think have one.
And it seems all these problems happened when installed the 80s. As said both banks are matching closely both ltrim or strim.So don't seem to be a problem on one side. And doubt both sides.

So put back 60's and your previous tune. Takes just ten minutes. Very easy way to check if there any vacuum leaks or any other problems.

[ALB]

Umm not 10 minutes on my car. I have nitrous lines all over the place for direct port and not into taking off the 80s and swapping in the 60s.

But yeah maybe it will come to that if can't figure this out.

[Pekka_Perkeles]

Umm not 10 minutes on my car. I have nitrous lines all over the place for direct port and not into taking off the 80s and swapping in the 60s.

I see.

Well, I'm in the same situation soon, since my 80's are waiting in my desk and my previous 60's worked like a charm...after Greg's data, of course.

[ALB]

Ok I talked to Greg .He is on this board of course as well. Sounding like the 80 are big and the data may not make them run perfect.I hate to say it but that was one big reason I got the dvd for the data and also got 80 pound high impedence recently when already had 120 low impedence sitting here. I didn't really want the harness and box converter in my bay either. But if cant' get the 80s to work perfectly going to likely get rid of them. The 60s as said worked great. I would like to hear from anyone else that is running 80s and what success you have had.
I will try something that greg has mentioned and see if it helps.I can't run 60s that is not an option. I am way past 60s.

[Frost]

The supplied data will not deliver an IPW under 2.0mS. You will need IPW's in the 1.5-1.6mS range to idle cleanly on the 80s and 1.6-1.7mS for the 60s.

[ALB]

So what does this mean..that the supplied data is useless? apparently so. And are you saying you know how to tune these to get ipw in the 1.5 to 1.6 range? All that is left really is playing with minimum pulse width or messing with the ifr.
Main reason got this dvd was to run 80s .Not a very happy camper right now.I could swear thought that have pulsewidths at idle of 1.8 today.But short terms are buried and took out ve and will try to take out more than play with ifr and min pulsewidth and see what if anything that will do. If that don't cut it then think going to sell my 120s, my 80s, my 60s and get me some of those pricey high impedence that actually work right.
My 120s seemed to idle great but just didnt like the converter box and all the extra harnessess.

[ALB]

Well mucked on car and now more depressed than ever. I played with a few parameters. I set the injectors from 89.23 to 93.7 across the board. Then at 97.5 across the board.
I only idled car no driving.I also leaned down ve table around idle by quite a bit and tried
taking min pulsewidths to .8 from 1.1.
One that that was hopeful for a short while was that when put car in gear it would reach around stoic. The o2s would cylce good and while trims both short and long term were still high the afr looked good. But as soon as put it in park it would start loading up, the o2s would slow down and stop cycling the afr would start going richer .Wtf???
Why such a big change in park.I have idle at 800gear and 850 park. Is the higher idle making it richer. I plaed a bit with iac counts also. I have gt7 cam specs are 210/230/590/590/121 with 1.8 rockers. What is good iac count .Will too high cause it to be super rich in park but not gear? throttle voltage is .061 or .61. Just slightly over recommended .50 to .60?? I have reset tps to be zero.
Also wondering if idle airflow makes difference on the afr at idle in park and gear. And
still could try to take ve lower in idle ranges.

Both banks are mirroring each others actions in terms of 02 response so don't think anything too weird going on with engine.

I have not tried to play with fuel pressure yet but thought going bigger on injector ifr was same thing pretty much.

[ALB]

Well more experimenting. Put ifr back to 89.23 straight across.
Anyway this is weird. When I turn on my air my iac hit around 100 and afr seems to stay great at 14ish in drive. When put it into park get around 60 iac and it still stays around stoic. Now I turn off air and my iac are much less think only around 40 with air on and 18 or something with air off. Now it sort of holds afr in gear but starts going pig rich in park.
So airflow seems key here more than just leaning out ve it seems . Now wondering if have some whacked value in the idle air tables somewhere like adpative idle or something?
And also wondering if the right iac or idle air settings can make these 80s behave.
I am idling at 800 set both park and in gear at operating temp to be same and set airflow same on park and ingear as well although would think different engine loads in park and gear..
Now when my afr goes rich and the 02s get slow the car don't rev worth crap. When its near stoic in idle its crisp no problems.

So am I on the right track maybe ?? I slotted my tps previously so maybe going to try to
crank more iac into the car with air off to maintain the afr at stoic. Or can I adjust this with idle airflow table and does bigger numbers give me more airflow and make it leaner or opposite smaller numbers give me more airflow??

I may not be able to get my tps voltage below 60 if go too far on iac by moving out tb screw. I have not drilled my throttle body and don't intend too.My cam is mild enough pretty sure shouldn't have to.
Do I have to be under .60 for tps to stay in idle cells?

[Torguemanagement]

Same problem here, any news on this topic ?

[DSteck]

Trying to idle those injectors that low is part of the problem. They just can't deliver very small amounts of fuel.

[ALB]

Well mine seem to stay pretty close to stoic in gear and even easier with air on. With air off in park they do start to go richer but since don' leave it in park that long usually unless warming up car then guess not as big a deal. but the trims are still super negative and so get bogging off idle. I am not that happy with these 80s anymore now that the dvd data don't really make them run perfect like the 60s. I may just reinstall my 120 low impedence ones that still have around or as said possibly sell off the 80s and 120 setup and use the money to get those new high impedecence 1000s after hearing a bit more about how they are working out. But at 250 an injector they are crazy expensive!

I tried lowering fuel pressure have to see how that works out in terms of the trims.Also was given tip that disconnecting the fuel evap solenoid and venting line could help some as well. I still think key might be to get iac high enough that it would compensate as said that when air was on the car was much better at holding stoic in park and gear.
I just mostly want my off idle bog to go away. Also still pretty sure have rich decel. Not totally sure how the dfco works if when its working you get rich or lean afrs??? IF it shuts fuel thought would see it go way lean on decel?? I might have to play with my map settings..lower them from 18 currently. My cam can sometimes give me 18 vacuum sometimes a bit less depending guess on ignition etc. Also not sure if timing has much effect on idle afr?

[Frost]

There is nothing wrong with the injectors; you actually have to TUNE a bit to get them to work (gasp!) I got your email about them and as soon as I can get caught up on the work that I have already been paid for, I can help you out.

I will tell you that what you really need to know, I have posted in this thread already. Changing your IFR and base pressure will not change the minimum pulse width; you have to work down the short pulse tables.

[ALB]

Ok thanks Frost.

[mowton]

Tuning a 2007 C6 A6 with 402, forged bottom, solid lifters, cam, Procharger etc and using Greg's 80# Cobra Jet IFR scaling techniques (56.26%) have the car starting, idling and very streetable. Haven't gotten into the WOT portion, but so far so good. Even hot restart is in-line. Still fine tuning, but I am impressed (almost surprised ) with its manageability with such large injectors at the low load/idle areas.

Did try them on a 2003 C5 A4 Procharged, cam etc with less luck. Had a minor tip-in stumble couldn't get rid of. Maybe the 07 E38 PCM is a bit more forgiving.

Ed M

[Frost]

That tip in stumble...

If you look closely, at closed throttle, the trims move very negative trying to fight against the minimum pulse limits. When you transition back into throttle, the car is very lean since the trims are big time negative. It makes a stumble or rough point.

[mowton]

That tip in stumble...

If you look closely, at closed throttle, the trims move very negative trying to fight against the minimum pulse limits. When you transition back into throttle, the car is very lean since the trims are big time negative. It makes a stumble or rough point.

I will look into the logs we saved from that car. Can't fix it (delivered), but maybe can learn something for the future. There was also a very very minor surge at light throttle (just off closed) during light load cruise. As I remeber the injectors were at about 2.5/2.7 ms.

Thanks

Ed M

[Pekka_Perkeles]

Maybe there's a problem because of curve being flat on the left in the Short Pulse Adder?

[mowton]

That plateau to the left should be at the minimum pulse width point (i.e .8ms or 1.1 ms) so it would never be less than that so no need for more SPA.

Ed M

[Pekka_Perkeles]

That plateau to the left should be at the minimum pulse width point (i.e .8ms or 1.1 ms) so it would never be less than that so no need for more SPA.

Ed M

Ok, thanks!

However, I'm wondering why there's so huge difference between 60's and 80's in this particular table? (Short Pulse Adder)

I'm not yet ready to buy the argument that 80's are so huge, since Ford is using these in Cobrajet engines.