flow rate vs kpa question

[WS6TA99]

i just installed some 50lb injectors into my 99 WS6 and was wondering what would my flow rate be? the injectors are 50lb flowing at 43.5psi. can anyone help?

[mowton]

Excel worksheet compliments of Marcin Pohl . You will need to develop voltage offset and short pulse adders as a minimum along with the base flow rate.

Ed M

07/08/2016 update Not sure where excel file went, added a new one from EC_Tune. First page E38/67 values are incorrect due to math error. Go to second tab for these values.

Ed M

[WS6TA99]

Excel worksheet compliments of Marcin Pohl . You will need to develop voltage offset and short pulse adders as a minimum along with the base flow rate.

Ed M

wow that calculator works wonders!!

and what is the procedure for the short pulse adder and voltage offset?

[Baezi z06]

wow that calculator works wonders!!

and what is the procedure for the short pulse adder and voltage offset?

would like to know too....... ?????

Baezi

[WS6HUMMER]

wow that calculator works wonders!!

and what is the procedure for the short pulse adder and voltage offset?

I dont think there is a calculator for the voltage offset and short pulse adder. Myself and a good bit of others run the stock tables with just the flow rate changed but some like to tweak those tables too.

[mowton]

I dont think there is a calculator for the voltage offset and short pulse adder. Myself and a good bit of others run the stock tables with just the flow rate changed but some like to tweak those tables too.

Unfortunately there isn't. The next best thing is using an injector which comes from either a factory car, or one that soemone has taken the time to characterize (ie A&A SC tune) Of course, you can buy Greg Banish's DVD. He has developed full sets of injector data for every Ford injector (30, 42, 60 short, 60 tall 80 Cobra jet etc).

You can "tune" them in, but a more experienced tuner will have to chime in.

Ed M

[KLUG'S SS]

.....their are quite a few choices out there for injectors that have the full compliment of data to tune them in correctly so that people dont have to be raping their ve and or maf tables. Quite a few choices thanks to Greg's work for the Ford injectors as mowton mentioned and some good options as well for some that come in GM vehicles that you can just pull up a stock tune file and all of the data is right there.


To me it's a no brainer to have the injectors characterized correctly in the tune as it makes the rest of the tuning process a hell of alot easier, in fact I went and spent an extra $75 on some pigtail adapters for my truck so I could run some green tops which are on Greg's data disk as I didnt have any other options for a larger injector over 40 lb/hr with the Multec II Delphi connector that I had all the data on.

[WS6HUMMER]

Unfortunately there isn't. The next best thing is using an injector which comes from either a factory car, or one that soemone has taken the time to characterize (ie A&A SC tune) Of course, you can buy Greg Banish's DVD. He has developed full sets of injector data for every Ford injector (30, 42, 60 short, 60 tall 80 Cobra jet etc).

You can "tune" them in, but a more experienced tuner will have to chime in.

Ed M

lol, trust me I know. I messed with the offset and the SPA and couldn't get my Siemens Deka Low Z's to idle stoich so Frost stepped in to help and couldn't get them to lean out either. I ended up having to convert to a return style boost referenced fuel regulator/setup & cut down the base fuel pressure by 20 psi and then it finally idled stoich.

[Black Raven]

lol, trust me I know. I messed with the offset and the SPA and couldn't get my Siemens Deka Low Z's to idle stoich so Frost stepped in to help and couldn't get them to lean out either. I ended up having to convert to a return style boost referenced fuel regulator/setup & cut down the base fuel pressure by 20 psi and then it finally idled stoich.

I also installed a FPR return style, but cant get it to idle stoich, what did you set your fpr pressure at? I have a 2000 TA with a 76mm and 60# injectors 255 fuel pump in the rear OLSD 2bar. I've been messing with the tune for the last 3 days and it is begining to annoy me. Ive read threads on Tech and on here, but cant find any HOW TO tune files on this subject. Im asking a simple how do you tune on hpt for 60 pound injectors with a up front fpr 1:1. I'm still having a rich idle problem and want to get this fixed! Any help would be great. Thanks.

[robbyredneck]

black, its a little easier for us boost referenced fpr guys. when you turn your pressure down go to editor>tools >unit conversion and put in what you injectors flow at what pressure. put in your new pressure and it will calculate your new rate. measure your pressure at the regulator . put that value in your flowrate vs. kpa table .flash your new values and repeat.

[WS6HUMMER]

I also installed a FPR return style, but cant get it to idle stoich, what did you set your fpr pressure at? I have a 2000 TA with a 76mm and 60# injectors 255 fuel pump in the rear OLSD 2bar. I've been messing with the tune for the last 3 days and it is begining to annoy me. Ive read threads on Tech and on here, but cant find any HOW TO tune files on this subject. Im asking a simple how do you tune on hpt for 60 pound injectors with a up front fpr 1:1. I'm still having a rich idle problem and want to get this fixed! Any help would be great. Thanks.

40 psi works very well for me
Is your FPR boost/vacuum referenced? If it is a boost referenced FPR you enter the injector data in spreadsheet & and take the 0 map value and you paste only that amount all the way across your flow rate vs kpa table for every map value.

[Black Raven]

40 psi works very well for me
Is your FPR boost/vacuum referenced? If it is a boost referenced FPR you enter the injector data in spreadsheet & and take the 0 map value and you paste only that amount all the way across your flow rate vs kpa table for every map value.

I do have a vac/boost ref fpr, so I set the rail pressure at 40 with the vac line unplugged and put in my new value according to the spreadsheet across the board in the ifr vs. kpa and am still around 12.5 afr...what am i doing wrong? Here is my tune if you want to galnce at it…Thanks again!

[elite_cyborg]

Do you have to tune the ve when you injector swap, or if you get the offsets and flowrate they work fine?

[Black Raven]

Do you have to tune the ve when you injector swap, or if you get the offsets and flowrate they work fine?

I have yet to tune the ve table, all I have been trying to do is get her to idle stoich and I have followed everything by the book with no real results. Do I need to tune the ve tables for her to idle stoich?

[elite_cyborg]

I have yet to tune the ve table, all I have been trying to do is get her to idle stoich and I have followed everything by the book with no real results. Do I need to tune the ve tables for her to idle stoich?

Idk i was asking? Anyone know

[WS6HUMMER]

I do have a vac/boost ref fpr, so I set the rail pressure at 40 with the vac line unplugged and put in my new value according to the spreadsheet across the board in the ifr vs. kpa and am still around 12.5 afr...what am i doing wrong? Here is my tune if you want to galnce at it…Thanks again!

No you want to leave the vac line to the regulator hooked up when you set the rail pressure, you want the car under vacuum while you set the fuel pressure. With the line unhooked the FPR sees about 100KPA (WOT on a NA vehichle).
What is the injector part#? I'd like to check the #'s you have entered in your tune.

[ALB]

A few comments.Running 40psi on say 60 s seems like total waste of time. I had no problems running 60s with Gregs data in every area but was setting pressure at 58psi line off. Was sure that is how you set it even with adjustable reg. On my talons you set factory pressure to say 38 line off. So are you sure wsthummer you are supposed to set say 58psi if you are setting stock pressure line on??

Also if you have 80s like I have ,which are currently not idleing stock well, they are pulling massive negative trims and boggin terribly then going to 40 psi might help but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are using the 80s to run big power as now with that low pressure don't see you will be able to support any reasonable hp. 60s at higher pressure would likely work better.

Still Frost and a few guys are saying they have got the 80s to work well at idle and assume that is from messing with short pulse adder not going way down on fuel pressure.

Also to lean out properly the big injector would think you would leave the ifr at like the 58psi setting and set fuel pressure way lower in effect leaning things way out,not try to figure out the proper ifr at 40psi say. Gregs data is useless supposedly if you don' run the injectors at 58psi and actually think Gregs data is useless for the 80s anyway unless he supplies some extra date for short pulse or whatever to actually make them work right. I feel wasted money on the data part of the disc. The tuning part is ok and helpful and the data seemed to work great for 60s and assume smaller. Course smaller than 60s you can pretty much just set ifr and not much else and have things work fine.

I am going to do a bit more playing and waiting still to hear from Frost on these 80s but soon going likely still going to say bye bye to these 80s and put my 120s back in. They did idle great but just didn't like the extra harness mostly,With all my nitrous lines and two step harnesses it was just cluttery in there. And those other high price injectors might be an option if they weren't 250 an injector. Thats just crazy!

So again to clarify. you are supposed to set pressure line off..58 line on is like 68 or something line off. big difference there.

[WS6HUMMER]

A few comments.Running 40psi on say 60 s seems like total waste of time. I had no problems running 60s with Gregs data in every area but was setting pressure at 58psi line off. Was sure that is how you set it even with adjustable reg. On my talons you set factory pressure to say 38 line off. So are you sure wsthummer you are supposed to set say 58psi if you are setting stock pressure line on??

Also if you have 80s like I have ,which are currently not idleing stock well, they are pulling massive negative trims and boggin terribly then going to 40 psi might help but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are using the 80s to run big power as now with that low pressure don't see you will be able to support any reasonable hp. 60s at higher pressure would likely work better.

Still Frost and a few guys are saying they have got the 80s to work well at idle and assume that is from messing with short pulse adder not going way down on fuel pressure.

Also to lean out properly the big injector would think you would leave the ifr at like the 58psi setting and set fuel pressure way lower in effect leaning things way out,not try to figure out the proper ifr at 40psi say. Gregs data is useless supposedly if you don' run the injectors at 58psi and actually think Gregs data is useless for the 80s anyway unless he supplies some extra date for short pulse or whatever to actually make them work right. I feel wasted money on the data part of the disc. The tuning part is ok and helpful and the data seemed to work great for 60s and assume smaller. Course smaller than 60s you can pretty much just set ifr and not much else and have things work fine.

I am going to do a bit more playing and waiting still to hear from Frost on these 80s but soon going likely still going to say bye bye to these 80s and put my 120s back in. They did idle great but just didn't like the extra harness mostly,With all my nitrous lines and two step harnesses it was just cluttery in there. And those other high price injectors might be an option if they weren't 250 an injector. Thats just crazy!

So again to clarify. you are supposed to set pressure line off..58 line on is like 68 or something line off. big difference there.

I'm not saying to run 40 psi with 58 psi scaling, I'm saying to set the base fuel pressure to 40 (line on) & scale them for 40 psi. Why would you set the pressure to something and enter a different value in the spreadsheet? Thats bass ackwards.

What are you gonna do if you dont have an adjustable fuel pressure reg and you are scaling bigger injectors? Measure the fuel pressure at idle and enter the data into the spreadsheet........right? You dont have an adjustable FPR to pull the vac line off of.

I set mine @ 40 with the line on, look @ the flow rate table that you input the data too. If you did it with the line off that would be the pressure @ 100KPA not even close to 0. Not saying that way is wrong but I have never heard of doing it that way.

I have Siemens Deka Low Impedance 55's, Steve (Frost) and myself could not get the car to idle stoich after messing with the SPA, & voltage offset,etc. We messed with it for about a week and then I got the idea of cutting down the pressure from 58 psi to 40 and it worked beautifully. The tune is dead nuts on & will idle at whatever I tell it to.

I have a friend with a true 10.5 car that runs 8's, he runs Seimens Deka 83's and runs 40psi base pressure too, its not that uncommon to run that low of a base fuel pressure.

Also me and my friend run OLSD 3 bar, so we dont even have fuel trims to pull or add fuel our cars idle and run what the tune dictates.

[bluebyu8484]

Why is the excel sheet IFR calculater included with this thread 2 to 3 lbs lower than the data that Greg Banish provides on his disk?

[angrygoat]

That is a question I have been wondering about for a while now but I always seem to get the answer, "Don't question Greg, he has his methods"

I had no problem running 60's with a base of 58 psi. I have always set fuel pressure like an old vacuum adv distributor. Engine running, set base pressure based on equipment and fuel needs, hook up vacuum line and let it eat. When using the manifold ref regulator you should have one number across the table which will be more than the max of the table depending on the fuel pressure used. You also have to keep in mind, if you dont have enough pressure, your fuel atomizaiton will suffer